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Testing the Limits Double vs. Overcall

#1 User is offline   louisg 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 16:12

Scoring: IMP


RHO opens 1D. 3D would be natural, and 4D is undiscussed. There is a modern tendency toward (virtually) unlimited overcalls with shortness in the other major. Part 1: Double or overcall? Please decide before reading on.





Part 2: You double, and the auction proceeds:

1D-X-3D-4S
P-?

Oh well. Your guess?
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#2 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 16:20

Why not just overcall 4♥? It's so unlikely you will both have a slam and accurately bid it on any auction after they open, and I wouldn't want to make a habit of trying to stop on a dime at a low level on a hand like this. The losses from the rare slam missed this way are more than offset by the gains from the opponents mistakenly bidding over 4♥, in which case your double card will come in handy.
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#3 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 16:31

I'm definitely doubling 1♦. This hand has great potential.
Not so nice after 4♠, but such is life. Maybe partner has the goodies and raises our 5♥, and we are smiling again. It's too wild to gamble 6♥ on our own, since we need some heart fit opposite.
Michael Askgaard
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#4 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 16:53

A good hand for 4♥ followed, if needed, by double.

I simply refuse to double with this hand-type unless I have something (even) closer to a 2♣ opening. Now, reverse the majors, and I am a doubler.. I can handle 4♥ and while I won't like 5♣, partner is less likely to play me for real support of an unbid minor than an unbid major.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#5 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 18:14

looks like after this its a pass of 4♠
I guess when you make the original double you have to ask yourself before hand what woud you do after 3♠ which is obvious but also what you would do after 4♠
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#6 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 18:59

If you choose to double, it seems to me 5♥ over 4♠ is clear.

Yes, often you have to pass partner's 4♠ after doubling with strong offshape hands, but not with this hand.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-August-06, 19:36

I would definitely start with X and then 5H is obvious.
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#8 User is offline   cnszsun 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 20:36

Double then 5♥ seems clear to me.
Also, I don't think 4♥ then double later would show this hand. Shouldn't it show a hand with extra playing strength and some modest defense?
Michael Sun

#9 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 00:09

A 4H Red vs W should show 8.5--9 tricks. This hand is a trick too strong but the prospect of opps sacrifice at 4S is so high that i prefer a direct 4H. If the opps compete further I double to show a great hand.

If im W the X should suggest a save at 5H.
If im red the X is extra strenght.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
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#10 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 00:27

I start with 1♥, it is ever, ever, never passed out.

If I had started with a double, 5♥ is obvious.
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Best Regards Ole Berg

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#11 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 00:34

louisg, on Aug 6 2008, 05:12 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP


RHO opens 1D. 3D would be natural, and 4D is undiscussed. There is a modern tendency toward (virtually) unlimited overcalls with shortness in the other major. Part 1: Double or overcall? Please decide before reading on.





Part 2: You double, and the auction proceeds:

1D-X-3D-4S
P-?

Oh well. Your guess?

4h over 1d...give up on slam.
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#12 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 00:57

I'm usually pretty strict with the overcalling vs double (tend towards overcalling as the auction usually doesn't die out) but this hand has very good potential so it's a double for me.
After the auction proceeds as follows, it's now not so ideal but I still bid 5H.

I guess my 2nd choice would be to bid 4H over 1D then followed by a double if need be.
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#13 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 00:57

#1 X, t/o
#2 X, penalty

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#14 User is offline   Edmunte1 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 01:26

Double, the hand is too good for a direct 4♥.
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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 01:37

Double, then 5♥. I'd only do this with a huge hand, so I can imagine partner raising to six with the right hand - KQxxxx Qx x xxxx, for example.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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