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delayed splinter

#1 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 11:10

Scoring: IMP

1S - 2D
2S - 4C - (dbl)
4H - ??


Your call?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#2 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 11:15

Keycard? Partner obviously has good trumps so let's find out where we stand.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#3 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 11:15

Very difficult to answer as this is an area where discussion with partner helps a lot.

I hate giving follow up questions, because likely the answer is going to be "no agreement", but the questions running through my mind are:

1. Why didn't partner pass and let me redouble with first round control or cue without it?

2. If partner has first round control, why didn't he redouble? If he doesn't, why was he so keen to show me his heart control?

Given partner doesn't have any fitting diamond honors and he wasn't interested in hearing if we had first round spade control, he probably has concentration in the majors. Maybe something like AKQxxx KQx xx xx?

I'm going to make a forward going move, but not really sure what's the best way. Guess I'll just keycard and bid slam if we're not off 2.
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#4 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 13:31

Are you asking if I'd jump to slam? Or just bid keycard first?
Kevin Fay
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#5 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 13:56

Jumping to slam would be poor as you are missing 2 aces. The 5-level was reasonably safe.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#6 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 14:00

Yeah I know I'm just joking. Meaning: I'm bidding 4NT.
Kevin Fay
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 16:34

4♠. I've shown most of my hand. If partner has ♠AKQ and ♥KQ he should bid again; if his hearts were headed by the king only, I think he'd have passed the double of 4♣, planning to bid 4♥ on the next round. I hate going down at the five level.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 16:56

gnasher, on Aug 6 2008, 05:34 PM, said:

4♠. I've shown most of my hand. If partner has ♠AKQ and ♥KQ he should bid again; if his hearts were headed by the king only, I think he'd have passed the double of 4♣, planning to bid 4♥ on the next round. I hate going down at the five level.

Partner doesn't need that hand.

Suppose that he has a maximum weak two in spades. Something like ♠AKQxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣xxx. That would fit with the control bid in hearts. Slam is a fairly good bet opposite that hand.
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#9 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 17:06

kenrexford, on Aug 6 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

Suppose that he has a maximum weak two in spades. Something like ♠AKQxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣xxx. That would fit with the control bid in hearts. Slam is a fairly good bet opposite that hand.

5=1=3=3s normally play a trick better than their counterparts.
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#10 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 17:36

Echognome, on Aug 6 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 6 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

Suppose that he has a maximum weak two in spades.  Something like ♠AKQxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣xxx.  That would fit with the control bid in hearts.  Slam is a fairly good bet opposite that hand.

5=1=3=3s normally play a trick better than their counterparts.

See how strong my point is! Sure, if you give partner a sixth spade, the slam is easy to make. But this slam even makes when partner only has 12 cards because one of his spades is on the floor.

How bad is passing when partner makes slam with 12 cards?

LOL
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#11 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 17:59

kenrexford, on Aug 6 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

Echognome, on Aug 6 2008, 06:06 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 6 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

Suppose that he has a maximum weak two in spades.  Something like ♠AKQxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣xxx.  That would fit with the control bid in hearts.  Slam is a fairly good bet opposite that hand.

5=1=3=3s normally play a trick better than their counterparts.

See how strong my point is! Sure, if you give partner a sixth spade, the slam is easy to make. But this slam even makes when partner only has 12 cards because one of his spades is on the floor.

How bad is passing when partner makes slam with 12 cards?

LOL

True, passing partner in his 4-1 fit would not be good if he has 12 cards!
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#12 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 18:05

That would be my typical result. Partner would think I introduced hearts late with a bad 6-4.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#13 User is offline   cnszsun 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 18:39

About whether to pass opponent's double of our cue-bid (here it's a splinter bid, maybe different), I once heard some agreements.
Similarly like this, redouble = first round control, pass = second round control, bid = no control. Anyone else ever heard of this?
Michael Sun

#14 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 18:52

cnszsun, on Aug 6 2008, 07:39 PM, said:

About whether to pass opponent's double of our cue-bid (here it's a splinter bid, maybe different), I once heard some agreements.
Similarly like this, redouble = first round control, pass = second round control, bid = no control. Anyone else ever heard of this?

Yeah it's different over a splinter bid since there is no point to showing second round control.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#15 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 19:04

cnszsun, on Aug 6 2008, 07:39 PM, said:

About whether to pass opponent's double of our cue-bid (here it's a splinter bid, maybe different), I once heard some agreements.
Similarly like this, redouble = first round control, pass = second round control, bid = no control. Anyone else ever heard of this?

Yes, I have played this (in cuebidding auctions).

Pass shows a holding where we won't lose the first 2 tricks.
This means second round control, or the queen of the suit.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#16 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-August-06, 23:37

I just bid 4S. Partner didnt redouble 4C so we got 1 club loser. Partner will need AKQ of spades or AKxxxxx to have slam significatly higher than 50%. With those holding and the K of H i expect him to keep going after 4S anyway.
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#17 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 01:14

I'm keycarding
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#18 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 03:40

Is there any vote for 5♥ (♥A, dont worry about minors, how are your trumps?)?

Keycard will keep us out of slam if partner is missing the ♠A, but it will also keep us out of a decent slam if partner has ♠AQJxxxxx ♥Kx ♦x ♣xx.

Or is 5♥ an unlucky expert bid (or just plain wrong :P)?

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#19 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 09:37

Trinidad, on Aug 7 2008, 04:40 AM, said:

Or is 5♥ an unlucky expert bid (or just plain wrong :P)?

First one. If partner had that hand he would have beaten us to keycard.
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#20 User is offline   SoTired 

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Posted 2008-August-07, 13:25

4H has to be forward going with no wasted club honors.

key-card for me. Why can't partner be ♠AKQxx ♥Kxx ...?
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