[helene_t]

I learned to give count in the trump suit when declarer pulls trumps but it seems to me rarely to be useful and often to be helpful to declarer. Most people at my new club (after I moved to England) play suit preference.

[jdonn]

Firstly always be wary that there are many mandatory falsecard situations in the trump suit, so if partner has made one of those it's doubtful he is signalling. Also many times you want to play randomly / automatically play lowest to highest, just to avoid giving info. Besides all that, I recommend giving count only if you are looking for a ruff (or otherwise for a reason think partner needs count in particular), and otherwise giving suit preference.

So I guess my answer is "count or sp or random depending on situation".

What is prism?

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on Aug 11 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

What is prism?

Prism signals are a way of giving count for the entire hand type. If you have 4441, 4432, 6322, and such, you have three evens and one off. With 5431, 4333, and 7330, you have three odds and an even. With prism signals, you tell which type. If partner has that information, he may well be able to figure out the most likely layout of the entire table.

Which brings up an observation we had the other day at the local club. If, and I make no statements as to whether or not, but if folks ever have cheated at bridge by signals as to, for example, the length of the heart suit, then they should be rather embarassed at their lack of technique. It seems to me that prism signals for a cheater would be more effective, with any number of binary types of signals (e.g., a general "left" message in any way transmitted could indicate odds predominant, "right" for evens) sending the message. Grab drink with left hand. Lean left. Sort cards left to right. Stuff like that. Harder to trace, and more sophisticated. So, if anyone did this "heart count" idea, they should be doubly ashamed. First, for cheating. Second, for not coming up with a really easy to use but extremely difficult to spot cheat signal technique.

[han]

Ditto jdonn.

[pclayton]

Something I've been playing around with is to use count in the trump suit to show count in an side suit not yet played.

I keep seeing examples of how it can be very useful, but I can't seem to come up with any simple rules for what suit it applies to or when its on.

[brianshark]

With my regular pard, I play hi-lo shows that a ruff may be possible.

[Tola18]

Another possiblility is to use trumps as try to show what do I like the lead, if my lead marking was unclear.

I believe I saw that tip in a polish magazine.

[mikeh]

I usually play suit preference, but subject to josh's comments as well.

Prism sounds a lot like encrypted signals which are illegal, certainly in ACBLand.. are they legal elsewhere? BTW, this is yet another area where the 'don't make people think' attitude of bridge law makers seems to have run amok.

[Echognome]

mikeh, on Aug 12 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

Prism sounds a lot like encrypted signals which are illegal, certainly in ACBLand.. are they legal elsewhere? BTW, this is yet another area where the 'don't make people think' attitude of bridge law makers seems to have run amok.

Encrypted signals are illegal in the EBU as well.

However, prism signals are not encrypted (despite Ken's muddying of the definition). They were devised (or at least first written about) by a Norwegian named Vinje. They are just a count signal for the entire hand. We will always have either 3 odd length suits and 1 even length suit (e.g. 4333, 5332, etc) or 3 even length suits and 1 odd length suit (4432, 6322, 5422, etc). So you pick high-low for one situation and low high for the other. Vinje goes on to say that with three trumps you can also indicate which suit has different parity.

[Tola18]

Echognome, on Aug 12 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

prism signals... were devised (or at least first written about) by a Norwegian named Vinje. They are just a count signal for the entire hand. We will always have either 3 odd length suits and 1 even length suit (e.g. 4333, 5332, etc) or 3 even length suits and 1 odd length suit (4432, 6322, 5422, etc). So you pick high-low for one situation and low high for the other. Vinje goes on to say that with three trumps you can also indicate which suit has different parity.

Ah! memory signals sounds!

I remember vaguely something called for Vinjes signal. Is it this, or did Vinje devised also other carding ways?? Like Vinjes leads.... somewhat confused...

[kenrexford]

Tola18, on Aug 12 2008, 05:35 PM, said:

Echognome, on Aug 12 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

prism signals... were devised (or at least first written about) by a Norwegian named Vinje.  They are just a count signal for the entire hand.  We will always have either 3 odd length suits and 1 even length suit (e.g. 4333, 5332, etc) or 3 even length suits and 1 odd length suit (4432, 6322, 5422, etc).  So you pick high-low for one situation and low high for the other.  Vinje goes on to say that with three trumps you can also indicate which suit has different parity.

Ah! memory signals sounds!

I remember vaguely something called for Vinjes signal. Is it this, or did Vinje devised also other carding ways?? Like Vinjes leads.... somewhat confused...

Vinje had an entire book on defensive signals. An interesting read.

[helene_t]

Tola18, on Aug 12 2008, 05:01 PM, said:

Another possiblility is to use trumps as try to show what do I like the lead, if my lead marking was unclear.

I believe I saw that tip in a polish magazine.

You mean whether I liked the opening lead? That's called Smith.

[Gerben42]

I play that any signal that is not discussed otherwise is suit preference. Suit preference rules.

Count can be useful in specific situations, but I admire those who "always" play count and still manage to defend well. I always end up guessing which of two critical cards partner has, and guess wrong.

[MFA]

I give count in trumps sometimes. When I find it might be useful to partner. Just as in the side suits. It just isn't useful as often in trumps.

[skjaeran]

Suit preference is the signal I use the most in trumps.

I'm also used to echo (hi-low) to indicate 3+ trumps and an ability to ruff.

In situations where we're playing a forcing defence, the defender lacking trump control gives count, so that partner knows when to cash out, thus restricting declarer to the lowest possible number of tricks.

[gwnn]

i'd love to try prism. it would make me count more.

[pclayton]

gwnn, on Aug 13 2008, 01:20 PM, said:

i'd love to try prism. it would make me count more.

More likely you will just get a headache.