[navit]

---

West and East passed .east deaker-passed. South opened with 1 s and north responded 2d/ How should the bidding continue. South rebidded 2 h and then n 3 s and s 4 s

[dicklont]

After
- - p 1S
p 2D p 2H
p 3S

South should bid 4D showing values (A or K).
North will now be enthousiastic and ask for keycards (4NT)
South has two and the Queen of trumps (5S)
And North is happy to bid the small slam (6S).

Unfortunately this will go down 1 due to the bad trump split.

[effervesce]

dicklont, on Jul 31 2008, 07:49 AM, said:

After
-   -   p 1S
p 2D p 2H
p 3S

South should bid 4D showing values (A or K).
North will now be enthousiastic and ask for keycards (4NT)
South has two and the Queen of trumps (5S)
And North is happy to bid the small slam (6S).

Unfortunately this will go down 1 due to the bad trump split.

It can still make double-dummy if west doesn't lead a diamond. Play off the top hearts, ruff a heart. AK spades, top clubs, ruff club, top spade, give up a spade. East is endplayed to concede the diamond position.

*Wonders if playing the hand like above is the right declarer play, rather than playing to set up a diamond for a heart pitch and 3-2 spades*

[kenrexford]

effervesce, on Jul 31 2008, 08:00 AM, said:

dicklont, on Jul 31 2008, 07:49 AM, said:

After
-   -   p 1S
p 2D p 2H
p 3S

South should bid 4D showing values (A or K).
North will now be enthousiastic and ask for keycards (4NT)
South has two and the Queen of trumps (5S)
And North is happy to bid the small slam (6S).

Unfortunately this will go down 1 due to the bad trump split.

It can still make double-dummy if west doesn't lead a diamond. Play off the top hearts, ruff a heart. AK spades, top clubs, ruff club, top spade, give up a spade. East is endplayed to concede the diamond position.

*Wonders if playing the hand like above is the right declarer play, rather than playing to set up a diamond for a heart pitch and 3-2 spades*

This is not a double-dummy play problem. Suppose you get a round-suit lead. If you try the A-K in spades, you get the bad news. You could then play this really simply and cash the A-K in hearts and then ruff a heart. If that third heart survives, you are home as long as RHO holds the diamond King and two clubs. A-K of clubs and ruff a club, high if necessary. As it turns out, cash the spade Queen and then the heart Queen. If RHO ruffs this with his last trump, he is endplayed. If not, you then throw him in with a trump.

Sure, you need LHO to have 2-3 clubs and not five hearts, but the other line is a serious stretch. Suppose that you get a heart lead. Win the Ace and pull trumps, like a wild person, throwing RHO in with his fourth trump. If he returns a heart, to "sever the link," you then play the last spade. You then cash the remaining heart to see if RHO has pitched the fourth heart and if the hearts are established. When you then cross to dummy to play the last two clubs, RHO might be squeezed if he holds the fourth heart (he does), the diamond King (he does) and both club honors (he has one). If he had pitched a club, then the third club squeezes him again in the red suits. Of course, even if this seems to work, though, it is extremely remote.

Plus, RHO playing the second heart to sever communications allows him to ditch down to the stiff diamond King. You must read this, for starters. After playing that third heart honor, you will then have a stiff heart, two diamonds, and two clubs in hand, with six cards on dummy, namely three diamonds and three clubs. On that last heart, your solution is to read the excellent ditch properly and pitch a club. When you then cash the diamond Ace, the whole suit comes in (with a finesse of diamonds had RHO held Kx instead of KJ).

I might be missing some variation or counter for Declarer, but this is a mangled mess as opposed to the simple ruff-and-endplay option.

As to the bidding. 2♠ would have been invitational, 4♠ fast arrival, and thus 3♠ slammish. South should, as noted, do something. A cuebid works. If cuebids are too complicated, or undiscussed, then South has enough, IMO, to bid RKCB if caught in this difficult sequence. Or, at a minimum, a quatitative/invitational 5♠ (unless that has another meaning). The point, though, is that South should move, ideally with a cue.

[vuroth]

kenrexford, on Jul 31 2008, 09:30 AM, said:

As to the bidding. 2♠ would have been invitational, 4♠ fast arrival, and thus 3♠ slammish.

Just so that I'm clear, this assumed 2/1, correct?

[kenrexford]

vuroth, on Jul 31 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Jul 31 2008, 09:30 AM, said:

As to the bidding.  2♠ would have been invitational, 4♠ fast arrival, and thus 3♠ slammish.

Just so that I'm clear, this assumed 2/1, correct?

No. I assumed that this is standard. If I'm playing standard and partner opens 1♠, and I have a limit raise in spades (but not four of them), I bid a suit at the two-level for starters. When partner rebids 2♥, I then bid 2♠ to show spade support and the 10-count I promised earlier.

If I have a 13-count, I jump to 4♠.

If I have extras, I bid 3♠, forcing.

Maybe I don't remember Standard American that well...

[vuroth]

kenrexford, on Jul 31 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

Maybe I don't remember Standard American that well...

No, I think you've got it right.

Quote

If responder initially bids a new suit at the two level, the same rules apply EXCEPT that a subsequent jump raise of opener’s first suit to the THREE LEVEL is game forcing

[P_Marlowe]

Waiting for the sandglass to finish:

1S (1) - 2D (2)
2H (3) - 3S (4)
4D (5) - 4NT (6)
5S (7) - 5NT (8)
6H (9) - 6S (10)


(1) SAYC style
(2) SAYC style, i.e. promising a 2nd bid
(3) min. opener with 5-4
(4) game forcing, showing some slam interest
(5) forward going , showing some life and a diamond
control (1st or 2nd round), denying a club control
(6) at most one looser in the minors, partner should
control hearts, he has nothing wort while in clubs,
daimond and spades
(7) 2KC + Q
(8) Asking for specific Kings
(9) showing the king of hearts, denying the king of
clubs and diamonds
(10) to play, unfortunately the sand glass is still showing

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kenrexford]

The bridge gods are cruel on this one, in that a diamond lead seems to lead to down two because of that stupid club 9 in dummy.

[SoTired]

kenrexford, on Jul 31 2008, 01:36 PM, said:

The bridge gods are cruel on this one, in that a diamond lead seems to lead to down two because of that stupid club 9 in dummy.

down 2? ♦A, ♥AK, ruff ♥ in dummy, ♠AK, Down 1. Am I missing something?

[kenrexford]

SoTired, on Jul 31 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Jul 31 2008, 01:36 PM, said:

The bridge gods are cruel on this one, in that a diamond lead seems to lead to down two because of that stupid club 9 in dummy.

down 2? ♦A, ♥AK, ruff ♥ in dummy, ♠AK, Down 1. Am I missing something?

Yes.

Ace of diamonds. Ace-King of spades. Heart to Queen, 10 of clubs floated to the Queen. Cash diamond and then get a spade for down two.

What? You are not going to take the 25% play to ditch the diamond and just resolve to down one?

[navit]

please explain when to bid 4 d and what does it mean

[P_Marlowe]

navit, on Aug 1 2008, 12:49 AM, said:

please explain when to bid 4 d and what does it mean

The 4D bid is something called a Cue Bid, showing
a controll in the suit. => Search the Forum / the Web.

Simplified: Cue Bid show up in various situations, in the
given sitiuation it is a bid which helps the partnership to
investigate, if slam is possible.
A player should only bid 4NT, if he knows that the
partnership has no 2 top loosers in any suit, to
communicate that a player has a control in a given suit
he showes the control, he makes a cue bid.

=> Usually a cue bid will only be made with slam interest,
i.e. if you make a cue bid, you show slam interest, but
now it gets complcate, this should also (partly) answer the
first part of your question.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[SoTired]

Good explanation, Marlowe.

BTW, 2H does not necessarily show a min opener, since responder promises a rebid.

When responder bid 3S, game-forcing, the auction is forced to 4S. Look at opener's hand. Opener has some extra strength (about an extra king). So bidding 4S would show nothing extra and nothing more to say. But opener DOES have extra and does have more to say.

It costs nothing to bid 4D on the way to 4S. This bid is called a "cue bid". Modern bidders cue bid 1st or 2nd round controls (ace, king, singleton or void), cheapest first, below game. The older standard style was cue-bid 1st round control (aces or voids) first and 2nd round controls later. This proved awkward and unnecessary on most hands since you have Blackwood to determine whether you have enough aces. So 4D says, "I have a control in diam and no control in clubs since I skipped over a 4C bid and at least some interest in slam."

Since responder also has extra strength, control of the club suit, and the diam cue bid allays responder's worry about 2 quick diam losers (opener bid hearts so presumably has at least the king), responder can bid slam....If your side has enough aces.

Even if not playing RKC, responder should bid blackwood to ensure opener has at least one ace before bidding 6S.