[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: NS Scoring: IMP

♠ QJ ♥ A8 ♦ T ♣ AQJT8762

West North East South

 -     -     -     1♣
 Pass  1♥    Pass  3♣
 Pass  3NT   Pass  ?  

Playing with an unknown expert, all you have agreed is "2/1"

Do you agree with the 1♣ opening and what now?

[blackshoe]

If I was sure 4♣ or 4♦ would be taken as RKCB, I'd bid that, but it probably won't be. I could bid 4NT, but is that simple BW, RKC, or 1430? Too many variables.

6♣

And yes, I agree with 1♣.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1C is surely ok, if you have to bid 3C is another thing,
but 3C is not a out of space bid.

Now pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rogerclee]

I would bid 4♣, which is just forcing with lots of clubs.

[mike777]

4c..but

hard hand..close....

[awm]

I would question whether a 4♣ bid even exists in this auction. Keep in mind that we have already made a non-forcing 3♣ bid and partner has signed off in game (which may even be a stretch). One can argue that it is better to open something else or rebid something else but limiting our hand and then pulling partner's signoff to slam (or RKC) doesn't make much sense to me.

There are also many partner hands where 3NT is our last making spot; give partner something like Txxx QJxx KQx Kx (actually a much better hand than he needs to have) and how do you like your chances in five or six clubs? I'd pass 3NT.

[P_Marlowe]

awm, on Jul 29 2008, 02:41 AM, said:

<snip>
Keep in mind that we have already made a non-forcing 3♣ bid and partner has signed off in game (which may even be a stretch).
<snip>

thanks.

[brianshark]

I don't like my hand for 3NT. I'd rather play 5♣ but if 3NT rolls home and we are off 3+ top tricks in 5♣ then partner will not be happy with me. I guess I'll pass.

[gwnn]

3♣ sort of limited your hand, like a 1NT opener etc. You can't bid over 3NT. And of course it's a bit tempting, I'll definitely give you that

[andy_h]

Agree with the bidding, and now a smooth and a happy pass.

[HeavyDluxe]

I think the bidding looks fine and would pass.

[jillybean]

Well, I did bid 4♣ and my partner jumped to 6♣, (making 7)
3♣ while nf is showing a very good hand and I was hoping the pull to 4♣ was suggesting slam or preferring game in ♣ to nt.

I dont like my partners 3nt bid, the correct spot here of course is 5♣

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     1♣
 Pass  1♥    Pass  3♣
 Pass  3NT   Pass  4♣
 Pass  6♣    Pass  Pass
 Pass  

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

well, with the hand your partner held, I would be hard
pressed to stop below 6C.

In other words: 3NT is an underbid, and he should
either explore slam with a 4C bid or jump to 6C.
If he bids 4C, the partnership should be able to
locate the missing spade control.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[bid_em_up]

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

[kfay]

Why wouldn't I open 1♣? Or was the question do I agree with 3♣? Now I can't remember.

Anyways. I couldn't dream of bidding over 3NT. Don't I have a major source of tricks?

[jillybean]

bid_em_up, on Jul 29 2008, 07:43 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

[kfay]

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

I dont like my partners 3nt bid, the correct spot here of course is 5♣

I really don't see any problem with 3NT. Surely you have something in ♠ for a jump when he's got the reds? 4 to the 8 could be a stopper anyway.

I think that 3NT is the correct spot.

[bid_em_up]

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 09:49 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Jul 29 2008, 07:43 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

jb,

you have nothing (worthwhile) in diamonds. The expert is looking at the AK.

you are missing the club K, so your club suit is not solid.

you are missing the heart A.

The expert is looking at all of these cards and knows you are missing them.

And yet you could still bid 3C. You must have some values in spades to justify the 3C bid. The fact that his spades are 8xxx has no real bearing on the 3N call.

[jillybean]

bid_em_up, on Jul 29 2008, 08:01 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 09:49 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Jul 29 2008, 07:43 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

....... the correct spot here of course is 5♣

And why is that?

3N's a fine contract, and a lot better than 6C.

I agree with the 1C opening, and pass 3N. I happen to think that 3N is the correct spot as well.

After Ive shown 16-18, ♣ hand I dont think 3nt holding xxxx ♠ and an opening hand is the smartest bid but then Im not an expert.

jb,

you have nothing (worthwhile) in diamonds. The expert is looking at the AK.

you are missing the club K, so your club suit is not solid.

you are missing the heart A.

The expert is looking at all of these cards and knows you are missing them.

And yet you could still bid 3C. You must have some values in spades to justify the 3C bid. The fact that his spades are 8xxx has no real bearing on the 3N call.

Or I could hold the hand I have, 3♣ isnt wrong is it? I dont think 3nt is bad but why jump to game when 3♦ is available. We have a ♣ fit, 5♣ or slam may be a better spot. A little cue bidding would have revealed the ♠ suit wide open.

[bid_em_up]

jillybean2, on Jul 29 2008, 10:16 AM, said:

Or I could hold the hand I have. I dont think 3nt is bad but why jump to game? We have a ♣ fit, 5♣ or slam may be a better spot.

Not sure what you mean by "or I could hold the hand I have".

The hand you have, is not a 3C bid to me, but you did not ask if we agreed with 3C. The "expert" doesn't know you dont have your bid and is bidding accordingly. Secondly, even holding the hand you have, 8xxx will be a stop most of the time.

Why would he want to play 5C when looking at 10/11 top tricks in NT? So if he's not going to consider 6C, 3N is the correct bid.

After a 3C bid, he can (and should) cue 3D. In fact, after a 3C bid, holding this hand, it would be difficult to keep me out of 6C unless we managed to discover the lack of spade control in time.