[mamo2500]

I know I should be able to look this up someplace, but I thought I could also just ask here

We play SAYC

After 1♦-2♣-

would 2♥ show extra values?

My partner had 5 ♣ and 4 ♥ and I had 4 ♥ as well and 4 ♥ was a better contract than the 3 NT we ended in.

Marianne

[Cascade]

Yes 2♥ shows extra values in standard SAYC.

This should not be a problem for you. That is you never need to miss your 4-4 major fit.

If you have extra values you bid it and partner raises ...

1♦ 2♣
2♥ 3♥ ...

and you can investigate game or slam in the major.

Also note that 2♥ shows five diamonds as well as four hearts - the only possible exception to this is 4441 hands.

When you do not have extra values then your partner can bid the hearts over your rebid. Here are some possible auctions:

1♦ 2♣
2♦ 2♥ ... responder's reverse here is forcing for one round (some play it as forcing to game - either agreement is playable)

1♦ 2♣
2NT 3♥ ... this would be forcing to game and showing five clubs and four hearts

In any case I emphasis there is no need to miss out on your four-four major fit.

[paulg]

mamo2500, on Mar 13 2004, 09:40 PM, said:

I know I should be able to look this up someplace, but I thought I could also just ask here

Marianne

Actually I've found that looking things up for SAYC is actually pretty difficult - which is a bit of a problem as I mentor the subject despite never having played it

Posting here is probably a far better way as you get excellent answers, as this one from Wayne, and often alternatives (improvements?) to SAYC or the "modern" practice of its players.

Paul

[Trpltrbl]

It is better to bid 1♥ with your pd's hand, if he has a minimum hand and 5 ♣ and 4♥. But this is why many people started playing 2/1 to get away from this.

Mike

[mr1303]

With one of my partners we've become so fed up with the auction going 1D-2C when we have a 4441 distribution we've started playing that 1H can be opened with 4 on this situation. Especially if you have a 15 count with 4441, you just don't have a rebid after 1D-2C

[Free]

in sayc, 2♥ is a reverse. It depends on how much you need for a reverse (I for example reverse from 15+HCP, but most people reverse from (16)17+ HCP).

[mishovnbg]

Spoiler

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Hi Mariane!

Spoiler

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I fully agree with Wayne, best answer as usually! If you like to improve your bidding after 1♦-2♣, you can look URL:

http://www.bridgeguy...kishRebids.html

Spoiler

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Misho

[Cascade]

mr1303, on Mar 14 2004, 08:25 AM, said:

With one of my partners we've become so fed up with the auction going 1D-2C when we have a 4441 distribution we've started playing that 1H can be opened with 4 on this situation. Especially if you have a 15 count with 4441, you just don't have a rebid after 1D-2C

Aha the start of the slippery slope towards four-card majors.

[slothy]

Slight disagreement Wayne ,

wayne said:

Aha the start of the slippery slope towards four-card majors.

I feel more comfortable wearing the metaphorical grampons, as it were, of bidding a suit naturally (eg 4+ cards) than having to open a suit with less than 4 coz i havent got 5 in a suit i have 4 in ....

never thought i would ever use a moutaineeering analogy in this forum, but there u go....

Alex

[luis]

Cascade, on Mar 15 2004, 08:53 AM, said:

mr1303, on Mar 14 2004, 08:25 AM, said:

With one of my partners we've become so fed up with the auction going 1D-2C when we have a 4441 distribution we've started playing that 1H can be opened with 4 on this situation. Especially if you have a 15 count with 4441, you just don't have a rebid after 1D-2C

Aha the start of the slippery slope towards four-card majors.

Well I'm known locally for deliberately opening 4 card majors even playing 5 card majors. I can promise I will not open with 4 cards I can sign documents deposit money and yet when I get
AKQx, Jxx, xxxx, Kx
I open 1s and I don't care who tells me to open 1d I will never do that.

[mikestar]

I rather like the disciminating use or four card majors (Luis example hand is a case in point).

What I have taught beginners is

1. A major suit opening shows 5.
2. A minor suit opening shows 4.
3. Edgar Kaplan's Liar's Code:
a. If you can't bid truthfully, tell the smallest lie posssible.
b. It's better to lie about the lenght of a suit than the strength of your hand.
c. It's better to lie about a minor suit than a mjor suit.
d. It's better to tell a small lie with the opening bid than risk the possiblity of having to tell a big lie with your rebid.

So with

---

We don't pass or open 1NT (better to lie about a suit than our strength), we open 1♣ (better to lie about a minor suit than a major suit). On the other hand, with

---

we open 1♠--it's a much smaller lie to pretend KQJx is five cards than to pretend xxx is four cards.