[georgeac]

I am looking to learn precision. Does any one have any books they would reccomend or websites? Is there one general precision system that everyone would know? Thanks in advance.

[helene_t]

You can follow OliverC's sesions in the BIL.

I like Kathy Wei's "Simplified Precision" as a brief introduction. Berkowitz/Manley's "Precision Today" goes into more depth and is contemporary.

[PrecisionL]

Get 3 friends together and learn as a foursome. Then you have 3 partnerships for Precision.

Rodwell has a 4 page outline on OKBridge of a simple version. Berkowitz-Cohen play a simple natural version and have done extremely well with it.

Go to Daniel Neill's web page for about 6 versions of Precision.

http://www.geocities...neill_2000/sys/

Larry

P.S. Kathy Wei's and Judy Radin's book: PRECISION'S ONE CLUB COMPLETE might still be available at Baron-Barclay in paperback and I give a copy to all my new Precision partners.

When you get really serious, then Rigal's Precision in the 90s and Precision Today by Berkowitz and Manley are cutting edge.

[kenrexford]

I'm old school, but when I learned to play precision, my first text was "Precision and Super-Precision Bidding" by Giorgio Belladonna and Benito Garozzo, published by G.P. Putnam's Sons in 1975.

I like to read older books with the early versions of systems first and then move forward into the more modern approaches. There is a lot to be learned about the system by understanding what has changed over the years and why. Heck, you might even quickly browse through Schenken's Big Club before any of this, or at least at some point.

[csdenmark]

I completely agree with Helene. Simplified Precision is the solid beginner book, 20 pages, and you will be ready to start learning the important features. Those are:

- Limit openings
- Principle of captaincy

Belladonna/Garozzo is the ultimative precision version. Very complicated with a level far above what you find for discussions in this forum.

[hrothgar]

csdenmark, on Jul 2 2008, 03:38 PM, said:

I completely agree with Helene. Simplified Precision is the solid beginner book, 20 pages, and you will be ready to start learning the important features. Those are:

- Limit openings
- Principle of captaincy

Belladonna/Garozzo is the ultimative precision version. Very complicated with a level far above what you find for discussions in this forum.

Hmm...

I think that it would be very sad if the "ultimative" version of a bidding system was developed 30+ years ago. One would think that someone might have been able to make an improvement in low these many years.

Even more sad when the folks who developed it were bribed to switch their methods...

[csdenmark]

hrothgar, on Jul 2 2008, 02:44 PM, said:

csdenmark, on Jul 2 2008, 03:38 PM, said:

I completely agree with Helene. Simplified Precision is the solid beginner book, 20 pages, and you will be ready to start learning the important features. Those are:

- Limit openings
- Principle of captaincy

Belladonna/Garozzo is the ultimative precision version. Very complicated with a level far above what you find for discussions in this forum.

Hmm...

I think that it would be very sad if the "ultimative" version of a bidding system was developed 30+ years ago. One would think that someone might have been able to make an improvement in low these many years.

Even more sad when the folks who developed it were bribed to switch their methods...

We have during the years been infected by a variety of versions. Twisting a few features this and that way around. Very hard to see much else than lack of skills for that. Such have been confusing for many who regard Precison methods as interesting. They have simply focussed on features of little or no relevance instead of what really matters.

I will say the only real different treatments invented have been transfer positives, fx. Meckwell, and symmetric relays(Icelandic Precision). But nothing af that relevant for beginners in this kind of bridge.

[pclayton]

Echo Helene's statement. Wei is easy and logical, and acts as a good introduction to a strong club.

I would not build a partnership around Wei however, rather I would use Berkowitz / Manley.

[fred]

csdenmark, on Jul 2 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

I will say the only real different treatments invented have been transfer positives, fx. Meckwell, and symmetric relays(Icelandic Precision). But nothing af that relevant for beginners in this kind of bridge.

Using the 1H response to 1C as artificial 8-11 with other positive responses as 12+ counts as a significant recent (or at least recent to become popular) development IMO.

No doubt this concept has been used in other strong club systems, but it now widely used by a circle of maybe a couple of dozen leading America players who tend play this form of Precision when they play together (either in regular partnerships or not).

As I understand it, Meckstroth and Rodwell deserve most of the credit for this. They started using the 8-11 1H when playing with some of their students thinking that this would make life easier both for themselves and for their students.

But the idea caught on among non-student partnerships too. For example, both Greco-Hampson and Cheek-Grue play a Precisionish system that includes this 1H bid. I have used the system myself with some of these guys and also on occasions that I have played with Meckstroth, Rodwell, Jacobus, Wold, Passell, and probably some other household names that don't come to mind immediately.

Everyone loves it!

So if name-dropping does anything for you, it would seem reasonable to conclude that the 1H 8-11 group might be on to something good

This is the only flavor of Precision I have ever played so I am not really in a position to compare it to anything else. But as far as I can tell, it works really well!

I doubt anyone has written a book about this yet, but I am not sure.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

fred, on Jul 2 2008, 06:43 PM, said:

csdenmark, on Jul 2 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

I will say the only real different treatments invented have been transfer positives, fx. Meckwell, and symmetric relays(Icelandic Precision). But nothing af that relevant for beginners in this kind of bridge.

Using the 1H response to 1C as artificial 8-11 with other positive responses as 12+ counts as a significant recent (or at least recent to become popular) development IMO.

Couple other relatively useful innovations that might stand the test of time

1. Using a 1♦ response to a strong club opening as a GF positive

2. Assuming that you use the auction 1♣ - 1♦ as negative, you have the option to use

1♣ - 1♦
1♥

as an artifical ask, and use 1♠+ to show different hand types

[hrothgar]

For what its worth, my two favorite books on Precision are Jannerstein's and Rigal's.

If you use the Rigal book steer very far from the section on Symmetric Relay. [I find it almost incomprehensible] However, the first half of the book which documents more traditional methods struck me as quite well written.

I'm not sure why I like Jannersten's books so much, but I find it a very useful starting point.

I thought that the Berkowitz book was OK, but it didn't really grab me.

Unless you're a serious bidding systems wonk, I don't see much need to looks at Schenken, Wei, Reese etc. Methods have changed a lot since then. (Yes, I know when Jannersten was published)

[glen]

I'm surprised we haven't seen this twist yet:

1♥: 8-11 not 5+♥s - subsequent free ♥ bids show ♠s
1♠: 8+ 5+♥s (1♣-1♠;-2♥ shows ♠s, 1♣-1♠;-2♠ shows ♥ fit).
Rest: 12+

Of course not best to include this in a thread about learning Precision

[georgeac]

glen, on Jul 2 2008, 12:09 PM, said:

I'm surprised we haven't seen this twist yet:

1♥: 8-11 not 5+♥s - subsequent free ♥ bids show ♠s
1♠: 8+ 5+♥s (1♣-1♠;-2♥ shows ♠s, 1♣-1♠;-2♠ shows ♥ fit).
Rest: 12+

Of course not best to include this in a thread about learning Precision

its okay, u can include it because i dont know what it means anyways lol. thanks for all the advice guys, i will look into some of these books and at the website someone listed.

[kgr]

helene_t, on Jul 2 2008, 11:31 AM, said:

You can follow OliverC's sesions in the BIL.

IMHO It is sad that this is only available for Beginners and intermediates.

[kenrexford]

Good Ole Schenken had an intermediate 1♥ response back in the 60's, as well, but it was a tad lighter, maybe 6-8. Of course, his 1♣ openings were a tad stronger, also.

[blackshoe]

kenrexford, on Jul 2 2008, 07:17 AM, said:

Heck, you might even quickly browse through Schenken's Big Club before any of this, or at least at some point.

Indeed.

I learned Schenken in college, and liked it. Didn't play bridge at all for years. Found a partner after I retired who asked me to play Schenken with him. 'Twas fun. We also played Romex for a while.

[Hilver]

The book I used to learn Precision in the eighties was '' The Precision system of contract bridge bidding'' written by Charles Goren. It was Chancellor Hall Book published by Doubleday & Company, Inc. Garden City New York.
It's a well wriiten and simple version of Precision.
Of course there are may other books as mentioned by others.

I would also advise You to take a look at The Revision Club. It is a good write up and well documented version of Precision developed by John Montgomery (USA). You should at least read Foreword and Introduction of his book. You can download this book for free at http://www.geocities...neill_2000/sys/.
I recommend it very much.

[effervesce]

Hilver, on Jul 4 2008, 04:14 AM, said:

The book I used to learn Precision in the eighties was '' The Precision system of contract bridge bidding'' written by Charles Goren. It was Chancellor Hall Book published by Doubleday & Company, Inc. Garden City New York.
It's a well wriiten and simple version of Precision.
Of course there are may other books as mentioned by others.

I would also advise You to take a look at The Revision Club. It is a good write up and well documented version of Precision developed by John Montgomery (USA). You should at least read Foreword and Introduction of his book. You can download this book for free at http://www.geocities...neill_2000/sys/.
I recommend it very much.

Revision club is perhaps not the best system for 'learning precision' - it's nowhere near how precision is commonly played, and is a bit complicated for beginning to learn to play a strong club system.

[Hilver]

effervesce, on Jul 4 2008, 06:17 AM, said:

Hilver, on Jul 4 2008, 04:14 AM, said:

The book I used to learn Precision in the eighties was '' The Precision system of contract bridge bidding'' written by Charles Goren. It was Chancellor Hall Book published by Doubleday & Company, Inc. Garden City New York.
It's a well wriiten and simple version of Precision.
Of course there are may other books as mentioned by others.

I would also advise You to take a look at The Revision Club. It is a good write up and well documented version of Precision developed by John Montgomery (USA). You should at least read Foreword and Introduction of his book. You can download this book for free at http://www.geocities...neill_2000/sys/.
I recommend it very much.

Revision club is perhaps not the best system for 'learning precision' - it's nowhere near how precision is commonly played, and is a bit complicated for beginning to learn to play a strong club system.

Well, I do agree Your remark about The Revion Club. After having studied a ''simple'' book on Precision, Revison is a good follow up. I strongly recommend any serious bridgeplayer - novice or expert - to read Foreword and Introduction of John Montgomery's book.