[aisha759]

Hi all, its me again
I have recently learned the 2♦ multi bid (well about a year ago)... again with my regular partner, i know all the relays, and the rebids etc.. the problem arises when I play with a new, random partner, and his profile shows that he plays multi.. as it turns out, its a different multi than the one i learned...
I play it as either a weak 6 card major, or 19-20pts balanced hand (which becomes clear when i rebid 2nt) but, i came to the realization that there is more than one multi... so when i sit at a table, with a new partner, and i agree on his cc, and his multi bid, what am i expecting....i.e do i ask wich multi, do i assume he plays the same version i do? and how many versions are there...
I would like to save time in discussing exactly what he/she means by multi, therefore i need a few pointers as what to expect, and what to ask for..
I run into most misunderstandings when play sayc with all those added gadgets... sometimes this prevents me from playing with people i don't know, as i shy away, and get confused when it is explained at the table, and i have to very quickly figure out what is meant... i have come across this a few times, and just said "ok p, thats fine" but the bid never came up, and i never got the chance to practice it..
Please shed a light to this other dilemna of mine

Thank you, regards,
Aisha

[Trpltrbl]

There are many different forms of multi. The one I grew up with, is either weak in a major, strong NT or Semiforcing in a minor(8/9 tricks). Most people I know now play it with either a weak in a Major or strong NT, but like I said there are different version out there, so best to ask. And good thing you know all the relays etc since again many I know, only know the 2 NT relay and everything else they just gamble.

Mike

[Trpltrbl]

aisha759, on Mar 22 2004, 05:40 PM, said:

I run into most misunderstandings when play sayc with all those added gadgets... sometimes this prevents me from playing with people I don't know, as I shy away.

Thank you, regards,
Aisha

When I play with various pd's who I don't know, I play very simple system. Either SAYC or 2/1 with whatever carding they like, whatever convention they prefer against opps NT, and some form of RKC. That's it, not to worry about silly stuff and just play bridge. And if you like a particular pd and going to play more with him/her you can always add stuff. Don't add too much at a time, maybe 1 convention each time you play.

Mike

[EricK]

There are four major varieties of the Multi (and quite a few rarer ones as well).

In the UK, I would say the most popular one is as follows

2♦ = Weak 2 in ♥ or ♠; Strong 2 in ♣ or ♦; or strong NT (some play 19-20, others 21-22)

I think that on continental Europe it is more common to play it as you describe i.e.

2♦ = weak 2 in ♥ or ♠; or strong NT

A third way (which is usually played by Precision players) is

2♦ = weak 2 in ♥ or ♠; strong NT; or strong 4441 hand

The fourth way is simply to play it as

2♦ = weak 2 in ♥ or ♠

The benefit of this fourth way is that partner knows you are weak, and can "muck around" on lots of hands because he knows the opposition has all the strength.

If I were playing with a pick up partner, and they wanted to play multi I would simply ask them "Which strong hands could be included in the multi?"

If they include the strong 4441 hands, I would try and talk them out of it, because the follow ups are not easy to remember.

If they include the strong 2s in the minors then the follow ups are more straightforward:

2♦ 2♥/♠
3♣ shows clubs, similarly for ♦

and

2♦ 2NT (asking)
4♣ = ♣ similarly for ♦.

In this last sequence, 3♣ would show a good 2♥ opener, 3♦ would show a good 2♠ opener and 3♥/♠ would show a bad 2♥♠ opener. There are other ways to play the follow ups, but I think this is standard.

I hope this is of some help.

Eric

[Free]

It's not only the versions of multi, it's also about the answers after 2NT:

3♣, 3♦ usually show a length in ♥/♠ with a maximum hand
3M usually show a minimum hand with M

But some people even play that different (like me btw).

If you want to play 'multi' with someone, just ask what strong versions are included, as well as the answers after a 2NT answer...

[joker_gib]

Hi Aisha,

Please keep in mind that playing multi is only interesting if you have agreed on something for the 2M openings.

Otherwise, playing simple weak 2's is more efficient in terms of preempt !

Alain

[Gerben47]

2 in a major is a 2-suiter and weak. 5 in the bid suit and 4 or more in a minor (some play both majors also possible). I've also seen 4 in the bid major and a side 5-card suit or longer! Anyway, a 2-suiter.

[mishovnbg]

Spoiler

----------------------------------------------------

Hi aisha!
Don't play with pickup p complicate bids like multi - it leads to worse results. If pickup p insist to play fancy bids, say him you prefer to play in such case Wilkosz (2♦ show weak 5-5 2 suiter with at least 1 major suit)

Spoiler

----------------------------------------------------

Misho

[Gerben47]

That's a good idea outside the Netherlands, but dealing with Dutch players:

In the Netherlands, "everyone" plays Multi + Muiderberg, it is in the standard system (like Wilkosz in Poland) and almost no one plays weak 2 bids, so you are in fact safer playing that then playing Weak Two bids that no one knows about. In fact I'd guess that a Dutch player that does not know Multi plays Acol Two bids.

The Multi in the standard Dutch system:

Weak two in Major
Strong NT (25 - 26)
Strong two in Minor
2♦ - 2NT - 3♠ = Maximum with ♥

This is of course important to check but if you agree "Biedermeijer Rood", which probably translates to "Standard Dutch Advanced" this is what you should expect.

[inquiry]

Gerben47, on Mar 24 2004, 10:44 AM, said:

That's a good idea outside the Netherlands, but dealing with Dutch players:

In the Netherlands, "everyone" plays Multi + Muiderberg, it is in the standard system (like Wilkosz in Poland) and almost no one plays weak 2 bids, so you are in fact safer playing that then playing Weak Two bids that no one knows about. In fact I'd guess that a Dutch player that does not know Multi plays Acol Two bids.

The Multi in the standard Dutch system:

Weak two in Major
Strong NT (25 - 26)
Strong two in Minor
2♦ - 2NT - 3♠ = Maximum with ♥

This is of course important to check but if you agree "Biedermeijer Rood", which probably translates to "Standard Dutch Advanced" this is what you should expect.

I started playing Multi + Muiderberg with a dutch player on MSN zone before it was MSN zone... when you had to open the castle doors, cross a little bridge, and find the cottage you wanted to play in.... (I always went bridge).... I played his way for many, many years.

There is little doubt that Multi + Muiderberg is an improvement over weak twos. I found several things bothersome with the approach that he took (BTW, I use Multi + Muiderberg with virtually everyone today).....

First, he opened Muiderberg with anything from a crappy 5/6 hcp up to a good 12 hcp hand. About 1/3 of his Muiderberg hands I wouldn't have opened at all, and about a 1/3 I would have opened 1M not 2.

Second, and most importantly, I didn't like the response schedule he liked to use (which I assume might be standard dutch).... For one thing, it seemed I frequently got a great 7 card ♥ suit when he opened 2♦ and I wanted to play 4♥, but he played a jump to 4♥ pass/correct. There are many other options, not the least is to use jump to 4 of a minor as luis suggest for this with "transfers" even so that responder can declearer the hand.

I also found the response schedule over Muiderberg didn't fit my style either. Then I discovered, by searching the web for better alternatives to responding to these two bids, Chris Rydal's page. After comparing responding structures I found on the web, I thought Chris' structure was the best, and so this is what I try to steer my partners towards these days.

Ben

[Free]

I'm used to play multi+muiderberg, but i don't use the strict 6-11HCP range. Muiderberg is a lot better when you use losers instead of HCP, and then you can even open with weaker hands than 6HCP.

[DenisO]

EricK, on Mar 22 2004, 11:27 PM, said:

There are four major varieties of the Multi (and quite a few rarer ones as well).

In the UK, I would say the most popular one is as follows

2♦ = Weak 2 in ♥ or ♠; Strong 2 in ♣ or ♦; or strong NT (some play 19-20, others 21-22)

I think that on continental Europe it is more common to play it as you describe i.e.

2♦ = weak 2 in ♥ or ♠; or strong NT

A third way (which is usually played by Precision players) is

2♦ = weak 2 in ♥ or ♠; strong NT; or strong 4441 hand

The fourth way is simply to play it as

2♦ = weak 2 in ♥ or ♠

The benefit of this fourth way is that partner knows you are weak, and can "muck around" on lots of hands because he knows the opposition has all the strength.

If I were playing with a pick up partner, and they wanted to play multi I would simply ask them "Which strong hands could be included in the multi?"

If they include the strong 4441 hands, I would try and talk them out of it, because the follow ups are not easy to remember.

If they include the strong 2s in the minors then the follow ups are more straightforward:

2♦ 2♥/♠
3♣ shows clubs, similarly for ♦

and

2♦ 2NT (asking)
4♣ = ♣ similarly for ♦.

In this last sequence, 3♣ would show a good 2♥ opener, 3♦ would show a good 2♠ opener and 3♥/♠ would show a bad 2♥♠ opener. There are other ways to play the follow ups, but I think this is standard.

I hope this is of some help.

Eric

This looks like a good response but I can only see the diamond suit symbol. Anyone know why? Because when I use the quote button for this reply I see HE and SP surrounded by square brackets, just the same as for diamonds but the suit symbols don't show..strange!

Denis

[mr1303]

What we're currently playing at university is something like this:

2C = 23+ balanced, or an Acol 2 in a major
2D = weak 2 in a major, Acol 2 in a minor, or 20-22 balanced
2H = A weak major 2 suiter (Ekrens we call it)
2S = Weak 2 suiter, with spades and a minor
2NT = Weak minor 2 suiter.

No idea if this is a good method, but it seems to work for us

[aisha759]

Thanks everyone for very informative answers to my question
I knew there was more than one multi available and i learned it the hard way with a pick up partner (learned new term even he he) ....
Trying to be accomodating to a non regular partnership and following his/her profile is fine, but maybe I should just stick to the KIS rule (keep it simple) and just play weak 2's, and not get into too much discussion during play, especially if its a tournament.. if for some magical reason the partnership works out, then maybe we can into which multi it is we want to play..
I was watching a vugraph the other day, and saw some interesting commentaries..
one person was against 2d multi, saying it makes it easy for defenders to come in with bidding, since it doesnt take up too much space, and that most players have found a way to bid defensively (that was one hand)...another hand, proved that the multi bid was a better choice..... so 2 commentators, and 2 different opinions... since they were both experts, and i am not, i sure got confused again!!
Maybe i should take a poll don't know how to do that though

Thanks again...
Aisha