[Hanoi5]

Scoring: IMP

---

Opponents have not intervened and so far it has gone:

1♣ - 1♦
2♣ - ???

If you say 2H or 2S your partner repeats clubs at the 3 level, if you ask for KC your partner gives 2 with the trump queen. Where do you head?

[kenrexford]

Ugly.

2♥ makes as much sense as anything. Partner bidding 3♣ does not help with the end position issue I expect -- how good are your clubs???

I imagine ending in 6♣ because I cannot get the info I desire. I also cannot get partner to ask the questions.

[kenrexford]

I'm assuming standard bidding. Otherwise, I would have responded 1♥ the first time and then 2♦ the second. But, whatever.

[jdonn]

Yeah it's tough. You might just assume that if partner bids clubs a third time (and later after blackwood shows KQ) that he has either KQJxxx or KQxxxxx. So I guess I'm saying in the problem as given I bid 7NT. Not 7♣, I think it's more likely that 7NT can make on a hand if the clubs aren't breaking (say AJx xx Qx KQJxxx for example has reasonable chances if clubs are 5-1) than that we have to play in a suit (I guess A xx xxx KQJxxxx would make me very sad in 7NT on a spade lead!), plus if they are the same it's still potentially a 2 imp difference.

[Echognome]

jdonn, on May 22 2008, 12:53 PM, said:

I guess A xx xxx KQJxxxx would make me very sad in 7NT on a spade lead!

Why? Just play ♠A, ♣A. Tank for about 20 minutes. Then call for the ♣K.

[ArtK78]

I would bid 2♥ over 2♣.

If partner then bids 3♣, and a key card inquiry shows two keys and the trump queen, I bid 7NT. The two keys and the trump Q account for 9 HCP. Clearly, partner has more than that. If the "more" consists of the ♣J (or a 7th club) and either the ♥Q or the ♠J, thirteen tricks are going to be easy as long as the clubs run. If the clubs don't run, there may still be some chances depending on what pard's "more" consists of.

[kenrexford]

I think stiff spade Ace is a very real possibility.

[pclayton]

Do people really bid 1♦ with this hand? I hate that style.

2♥ for now and will look forward to extricating ourselves from 4-3 diamond fits later.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on May 23 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

Do people really bid 1♦ with this hand? I hate that style.

2♥ for now and will look forward to extricating ourselves from 4-3 diamond fits later.

How is that any harder than extracting yourself from a 4-3 heart fit if you start with 1♥?

[pclayton]

jdonn, on May 23 2008, 05:17 PM, said:

pclayton, on May 23 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

Do people really bid 1♦ with this hand? I hate that style.

2♥ for now and will look forward to extricating ourselves from 4-3 diamond fits later.

How is that any harder than extracting yourself from a 4-3 heart fit if you start with 1♥?

Its pointless to go up the line with 4D, a 4 card major and a strong hand. I liken it to bidding 2C over 1D with 4 clubs and a 4 card major. Can you think of another auction where it makes sense to reverse with a 44?

If i started with 1H and then reversed into spades over 2C, would pard play me for 4 only hearts?

[Winstonm]

There is only 1 truly correct answer to this question and Ken already nailed it and the reasons - anyone bidding anything other than 6 clubs is simply guessing - not that 6 clubs is cold but it has the best chance to be a positive spot.

[jdonn]

Winstonm, on May 23 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

There is only 1 truly correct answer to this question and Ken already nailed it and the reasons - anyone bidding anything other than 6 clubs is simply guessing - not that 6 clubs is cold but it has the best chance to be a positive spot.

Finally found one you can't pass, but you still managed the lowest road possible!

[jdonn]

pclayton, on May 23 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

jdonn, on May 23 2008, 05:17 PM, said:

pclayton, on May 23 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

Do people really bid 1♦ with this hand? I hate that style.

2♥ for now and will look forward to extricating ourselves from 4-3 diamond fits later.

How is that any harder than extracting yourself from a 4-3 heart fit if you start with 1♥?

Its pointless to go up the line with 4D, a 4 card major and a strong hand. I liken it to bidding 2C over 1D with 4 clubs and a 4 card major. Can you think of another auction where it makes sense to reverse with a 44?

If i started with 1H and then reversed into spades over 2C, would pard play me for 4 only hearts?

2♣ over 1♦ skips the other suits, 1♦ over 1♣ skips no suits.

[whereagles]

pclayton, on May 24 2008, 12:56 AM, said:

Do people really bid 1♦ with this hand? I hate that style.

With such a strong hand, it is correct to try for a 4-4 diamond fit. The only bad thing that can happen is if pard rebids... 2♣

Anyway, 2♥ now and see what happens.

[hotShot]

We have time, so 2♥ now.
If partner has 12 HCP looking at my hand this has to mean he has 2 entries playing NT. So 6/7 NT seems in reach.

[han]

Agree with 1♦, 2♥ now, we have some room to investiage.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up in 7♣.

[kenrexford]

jdonn, on May 24 2008, 02:55 AM, said:

pclayton, on May 23 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

jdonn, on May 23 2008, 05:17 PM, said:

pclayton, on May 23 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

Do people really bid 1♦ with this hand? I hate that style.

2♥ for now and will look forward to extricating ourselves from 4-3 diamond fits later.

How is that any harder than extracting yourself from a 4-3 heart fit if you start with 1♥?

Its pointless to go up the line with 4D, a 4 card major and a strong hand. I liken it to bidding 2C over 1D with 4 clubs and a 4 card major. Can you think of another auction where it makes sense to reverse with a 44?

If i started with 1H and then reversed into spades over 2C, would pard play me for 4 only hearts?

2♣ over 1♦ skips the other suits, 1♦ over 1♣ skips no suits.

2♣ over 1♦, for many folks, also establishes a GF. 1♦ over 1♣ does not.

For this reason, I go systemically out of my way to respond 2♣ GF, using it as artificial because of the value of establishing a GF on subsequent auctions. Make this hand, for instance, the exact same hand with the minor reversed, and have partner open 1♦. If I bid 2♣, my way, Opener can allow us to establish a heart fit at the two-level with a GF in effect (bids 2♦, I accept 2♥), same with spades (bids 2♥, I accept 2♠), and even same with clubs (bids 2♠, I accept with 3♣). Having ruled out any of my four-card suits (3♣, 2NT, 3♦, etc.), I set diamond/NT as the focus. Always GF. Unambiguous, and fast.

Can't do that over 1♣-1♦. Technically, you can, but that's another issue...

[P_Marlowe]

4NT lets check KC, we will get all information we need.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

kenrexford, on May 22 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

Ugly.

2♥ makes as much sense as anything.  Partner bidding 3♣ does not help with the end position issue I expect -- how good are your clubs???

If you want to know more about the quality of the club suit just
ask, KC will tell you, 4NT is something simple / not sophisticated.

For that matter, 2H will quite often catch a 3D response, and this
means you will bid KC ask for diamonds.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Winstonm]

Anyone who believes Keycard for clubs or diamonds will help is deceiving themself - the critical card for 7 is not the K or Q but the J.

If partner's clubs are KQJxxx then 7 is most likely on. If partner's diamonds are QJx, then 7D may be on.

And if you bid 7 and partner has KQxxxx, then you are a jack off and get what you deserve.