[jtfanclub]

P_Marlowe, on May 20 2008, 04:35 PM, said:

Well I dont think 3NT is awful, ... 3 NT should show something like
13-15 bal., denying primary support for partner.
You are not too far away from what you actually hold, it is an
underbid, but a practical bid ... I think 4H is a lot more problematic, and 6S as well.

I don't know what it means in ACOL, but in SAYC it shows 15-17 balanced and 2 card support. I don't like the 6♠ call either, though.

[NickRW]

P_Marlowe, on May 20 2008, 09:35 PM, said:

NickRW, on May 20 2008, 04:41 PM, said:

Well, um, not very educational, but they actually went

1S-3N (awful!)
4H-.... tanks ....6S

So they kind of found one of the slams - but I didn't approve 

Well I dont think 3NT is awful, ... 3 NT should show something like 13-15 bal., denying primary support for partner.
You are not too far away from what you actually hold, it is an
underbid, but a practical bid ... I think 4H is a lot more problematic,
and 6S as well.

Well, I kind of agree with 13-15 bal playing Acol - but this is 16 and a great 16 for making slams with if partner has the right stuff - yeah - I've heard about aces and spaces - but you simply got to give partner some room on that South hand surely?!

4H I don't really find problematic at all. South could easily be something like

♠xxx
♥xxx
♦ATx
♣AKQx

If that's the case 3N is absolutely awful. True 4♠ is possibly better - surely South doesn't have interest in hearts having shut the auction out like that.

As for 6♠ - well call it an inspired guess. The lad's reasoning went something like: "WTF?! I already told her I don't have interest in a major game, so now she bids hearts - why - this has got to either be a 5+/5 two suiter or really long in spades with 4 hearts - er - I dunno - messed it up haven't I not exploring - take a guess that she has plenty of spades and with these controls maybe we can make something good". Kinda lucky maybe - but it sorta worked out - and there is a seat of the pants logic to it.

Nick

[neilkaz]

I remain quite surprised at the issues bidding to slam here. I hope my 2/1 partnerships find the claimable grand of 7NT here by straightforward means.

1♠ -2♣ GF (nothing else)

Now...3♠ which shows a great and at least semi-solid suit, shows extra playing strength (9 certain tricks (ignoring the few percent where the 10 of ♠ matters) is certainly lots of extra strength !!) 3♠ is also at least mildly S.I. at invites Q-bidding and responder punts 3NT with a bare min lacking slam interest afterwhich I can continue bidding or s/off in 4♠. OK my style is IMP oriented, so I am not passing 3NT.

Now responder could just bid RKCB for ♠ since knowing I have zero aces I may be reluctant to do so, or he can Q his ♣ ace. Either way at some point I am finding out he has all 4 bullets and bidding and claiming my 13 tricks in 7NT.

Easy hand if you jump after a 2/1 with a superb suit and slam interest rather than muddying the waters with a 2♥ bid. However after a 2♥ bid responder also needs to realize what a monunmental holding 4 aces is and do all he can to press for slam rathe than wimping out to the 3NT MP trap.

[manudude03]

manudude03, on May 20 2008, 05:00 PM, said:

Then what's you bid after FSF with the hand EricK posted (KQJxx QJxx Jx Kx)? 3D didn't promise a stopper. I posted the hands the wrong way round so changed the dealer to fix that (I was North, but actually held the South cards).

I should have said (didn't think it would matter here) that we were playing basic acol with weak nt and 4cM (and 3 weak 2s).

neilkaz, on May 21 2008, 01:24 AM, said:

I remain quite surprised at the issues bidding to slam here. I hope my 2/1 partnerships find the claimable grand of 7NT here by straightforward means.

Unfortunately, the basic system on the front of the scorecard doesn't say 2/1. With the hand quoted (KQJxx QJxx Jx Kx) do you really want the 4 bullet hand to push to slam in this? If you cuebid, partner probably won't suspect you know he is aceless, so assumably bids 4S. You then try RKCB and partner says he has the missing key card, can you really not bid 6? Yet we have gone too far if hearts don't split just by asking.

Maybe I'm being cautious or defensive, but the simple matter is this isn't 2/1 we're playing and 3S after FSF doesn't tell me he is even 6-4 (since 3D didn't promise a stop).

Out of interest (I did raise this question after the hand, and on the way home), what's the difference between jumping to 3NT after 2H and doing FSF and then bidding 3NT when partner makes the "nothing to say- no stop" bid of 3S?

[the hog]

EricK, on May 21 2008, 12:37 AM, said:

I think 3♠ is a mistake. 4♠ in response to FSF should show a hand like this . i.e. self supporting spades (good 7 or very good 6), and good 4 card hearts (else they wouldn't be mentioned in the first place). Bidding the grand is still difficult though, but certainly responder should drive to 6 with all his controls

I fully agree wtih Erick. The 4S bid after 4th suit forcing would certainly show a hand able to play opposite a void. Now pd can easily bid the small slam at least.

[neilkaz]

manudude, my friend, I bid in SAYC as shown, and don't dream of missing slam.

1♠-2♣ (10+) -3♠ (very good ♠ suit and 100% GF and invites Q bidding.

Since the hand with 4 aces now is totally in love with things he Q's or bids Blackwood and we claim our 7NT.

The secret is, not to muck around with 2♥ as opener when responder has 99% denied 5♥ and you hold 9 almost certain tricks and have a perfect and forcing 3♠ bid to describe the picture for PD ? The same applies to ACOL or SEF as well.

There's no need for opener to muck around with 2♥, 4SF or what ever !!

3♠ also sets the suit for RKCB not that it matters if opener is playing normal Blacky.

Look at opener's hand !! The only thing he care's about is PD's aces. He'll be happy to get some cooperation after 3♠ so he doesn't risk the unlike loss of a trick to a very protected 10 of ♠.

Big what you are dealt and jump when you have loads of extras and said jump creates a perfect picture of you hand and you'll be rewarded with laydown slams.

[neilkaz]

In Dad's (RIP) pre-Goren days.

1♠ - 3NT (16-18 with 2 card or 3 card support if 4333) and then opener Blackwoods and hand is over.