[gwnn]

Partner opens a 14-16 NT. You pick up

xx KQJ9x KQx AQx.

1NT-2♦
2♠

which shows a maximum with 4(5) card support and a weak doubleton in spades. This is a new partner, a new system, but you remember discussing this sequence, even though it had never came up in practice bidding.

and apologies for posting lots of these (perhaps for some, non-)problems. Just got back from weekend 1 of trials for Beijing, we lie 3rd of 15 after 4/12 sessions, first 3 to qualify.

[the hog]

What's the question? If it shows a weak doubleton in S it looks like you will make 11 tricks, or is it that you don't trust your partner, even though the points don't add up?
Personally I would just bid 6 and discuss it againg after.

[manudude03]

I guess partner thinks Qx is weak (and that's assuming he's willing to show a max with 15)

[FrancesHinden]

Really you are saying is it more likely that
i) partner has forgotten the system, or
ii) partner has "exactly" Qx A10xx AJ10xx KJ (if that's a NT opening for you) and has decided to call it a maximum.

I can't answer that, it depends on your partner... but personally, I would always go for (ii) unless I have strong evidence from earlier games that partner tends to forget this kind of thing

[andy_h]

So are we guessing now if partner has forgotten or Qx can be counted as a weak doubleton? I tend to trust partner as I don't want to try to cater for him forgetting or not. However, if he is a partner that doesn't think too deep and we do cue up the line, maybe I can re-transfer then cue 4C and the only thing he would think is that we've denied a spade control? Just a random thought...

[Trinidad]

Partner could have:

♠Jx
♥ATxxx
♦AJT
♣KJT

Wouldn't that be a maximum with a small doubleton spade?

I will play him for that hand and bid 4♥.

Rik

[Gerben42]

Quote

which shows a maximum with 4(5) card support and a weak doubleton in spades. This is a new partner, a new system, but you remember discussing this sequence, even though it had never came up in practice bidding.

Rule #1: Partner never forgets the system. I bid 4♥.

[whereagles]

Seems like one of those high hcp hands were we're missing AK in a suit. Well done, system: 4♥.

[brianshark]

Agree with settling for 4♥. Also, good luck in trials. Hope to see you there.

[pclayton]

Everyone forgets things. 4♥ is tantamount to saying, "if we miss six, it's YOUR fault". Looking at our hand its possible pard has his bid, but also likely he forgot.

I would take things a little slower. If pard cue spades at some point, does that cancel the true meaning of 2♠, do you think?

[ASkolnick]

Can someone explain to me how you are allowed to assume your partner forgot system. Isn't that a violation in system or an implicit agreement in itself?

Because you are then not following agreement.

[brianshark]

It's ok to assume that your partner has made a mistaken bid (basically an accidental psyche) if it is bridge logic that guides you to realising his misbid.

Bridge logic, in this case, is adding up the points which reveals he is unlikely to have a maximum 14-16 NT and have a small doubleton in spades. Another example would be that if partner opened 1♠ which shows 5+ and you are holding 10 spades in your own hand, you are allowed to know and bid on the assumption that partner has psyched.

If however you suspected he didn't have his bid because of hesitation or a history of partner making similar bidding mistakes, that would be illegal.

[pclayton]

ASkolnick, on May 19 2008, 07:20 AM, said:

Can someone explain to me how you are allowed to assume your partner forgot system. Isn't that a violation in system or an implicit agreement in itself?

Because you are then not following agreement.

I hold 8 clubs and little else. Partner opens 4♣. We used to play NAMYATS, but we both agreed to drop it from the card a few weeks ago.

I'm pretty sure you are allowed to figure this one out.

[jdonn]

I think this "maximum" thing is being taken too far. A super accept should not be an amazing 14 count, or an average 16 count. It should be 16 that is really good, so good that you fear missing game if you don't super accept. It is possible with 15 but only barely and then it would have to be sickeningly good. We are missing 13 outside spades and the QJ of spades, such a hand with a weak doubleton in spades is simply impossible. I don't know what to do since there are many possibilities (he thought it showed good spades, he thought we transfered to spades) but the one thing I know is I don't believe partner.

[gwnn]

of course partner had

AKx
ATxxx
Axx
xx

of course there were noobs in grand and of course ♣ is on. hehe. I bid 4♥.

[whereagles]

pclayton, on May 19 2008, 03:58 PM, said:

We used to play NAMYATS, but we both agreed to drop it from the card a few weeks ago.

You have seen the light!

[peachy]

brianshark, on May 19 2008, 10:29 AM, said:

It's ok to assume that your partner has made a mistaken bid (basically an accidental psyche) if it is bridge logic that guides you to realising his misbid.

Bridge logic, in this case, is adding up the points which reveals he is unlikely to have a maximum 14-16 NT and have a small doubleton in spades. Another example would be that if partner opened 1♠ which shows 5+ and you are holding 10 spades in your own hand, you are allowed to know and bid on the assumption that partner has psyched.

If however you suspected he didn't have his bid because of hesitation or a history of partner making similar bidding mistakes, that would be illegal.

There is no such thing as an accidental psych. Psychic bid are deliberate gross deviations from agreed system. Misbids, mispulls, or forgetting are not psychs.