[halfstep]

Hi, i am a Avid poker player who is exploring bridge right now.

one of the reason i love about poker is that i can win money at it, and potentially lots of money, just wondering could i do the same with bridge, by that i mean, in the bridge society, is there popular cash staked bridge games going on? just how frequent and habitual are bridge games with money involved.

P.S (don't know that much about backgammon, but after some research, it seems that backgammon has lots of real cash games, and the game is marketed with money involved, on the other hand, bridge seems to be very low key with the money aspect)

[CSGibson]

There are money games around, but mostly you have to find 3 other people willing to make a side bet on a rubber game to get cash action. You can win bigger prizes as one of the top players in the world, but my understanding is that the way most people who are professional bridge players make money is to find someone who is willing to pay to be their partner/teammate for a regular non-money game, or to give lessons and write about bridge.

[halfstep]

how wealthy is a average successful professional bridge player, in North America?

[jdonn]

It depends where you live. New York, Dallas, and LA are all good places to find big money games. Playing professionally (meaning with clients), it's hard to become very well off unless you are one of the very best, but you can certainly make a living. Many supplement that with directing or teaching or poker on the side.

[kenberg]

halfstep, on Apr 14 2008, 08:22 PM, said:

how wealthy is a average successful professional bridge player, in North America?

Hard to say but let me propose a variant for comment by others. Let's say "doing well" means frequent gigs at $500 per day (two sessions) plus travel expenses. My guess is that the number of pros, say in the US, who are doing well in that sense numbers in the small hundreds at best.

Doing well by this standard is not really doing all that well. Say you hire a not particularly expensive lawyer at $200 an hour. That's $1600 for an 8 hour day.

My guess is that someone seeking wealth had better be very very good or else find a different path.

Of course if you can find someone with a big wallet and weak skills who wants to play for cash, go to it.

[halfstep]

when i asked the question about wealthy in bridge, what i was really wondering is how common and established are cash games in the bridge community, so far from the 2 responses, it seems bridge players are not very accustomed to betting money on the side.

[hrothgar]

halfstep, on Apr 15 2008, 06:12 PM, said:

when i asked the question about wealthy in bridge, what i was really wondering is how common and established are cash games in the bridge community, so far from the 2 responses, it seems bridge players are not very accustomed to betting money on the side.

There are a wide variety of ways in which money passes hands arround and about the bridge table

There are still games of rubber bridge at which players wager sums of money (penny a point or what ever). This form of the game seems to have become much less popular.

Some duplicate tournaments offer cash prizes (this is much more common in Europe than North America)

You also have what's know as a Calcutta. The Cavendish Pairs tournament is probably the best known example. I suspect that this would be the closest example to "betting money on the side". However, you can find sports books that would wager on major events like the Vanderbilt or the Bermuda Bowl.

Last, but not least, there are a wide variety of players and pairs that offer professional services ranging from teaching lessons to serving as hired guns on a team.

[Al_U_Card]

Happy fun ball, like bridge for money and Richard himself, are still legal in a number of states (of mind)...

[fred]

Betting on the outcome of bridge tournaments is something that very few bridge players get involved in.

If the reason you are asking these questions is because you are considering trying to make "a lot of money" through bridge, I suggest you forget it.

Given that it sounds like you are a beginner at bridge, it would take years of play and study before you even had a chance to accomplish this. On top of that you would have to have significant natural talent, a particular personality type, and be willing to spend a lot of time "climbing the ladder" (generally not fun).

If everything went perfectly you might eventually get to the point where you could make $100K or so per year playing bridge. There exist some professional players who make more than that, but they are few and far between. Unless you are young, very talented, and very determined, it is not realistic to hope that you might one day be in this class. Even if you have "the right stuff" you (or anyone else for that matter) should expect to have to play for at least 10 years before you have any chance at all to make "serious money" from bridge.

I am guessing that the vast majority of professional players don't make anywhere close to $100K per year. Probably it is the case that most barely make enough money to cover their day-to-day expenses.

If money is what you are after I (strongly) suggest you stick with poker.

But if you just want to learn to play a great new game then you have come to the right place

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[dcvetkov]

Fred made a very good post and he is certainly qualified to give perspective from high level players.

I would have only before his post guessed and speculated that players earning 100K + a year playing bridge full time are very far and in between and seems that Fred confirms this, So if you consider wealth as beiing 100K+, that odds are against you that you will be one of them, and certainly you should not expect to earn this money year after year, 100K is probably the best case scenario.

Even if you had the talent and skills of Jeff Macstrosh and charisma of Zia Mahmood, it will take at least 10 years , if not more, assuming you have no roadblocks on your way and you are focused on bridge 100%.

To make at least something close to earning for living you need to

- Find a wealthy sponsor, who is willing to pay you to participate in Regionals, NABC, etc, cover your expenses. Of course top performance and winning are expected. Sponsors can get cold very easily.
- Supplement income by giving lectures, cruises, vacations etc. Of course to get to this level you need to establish your name first, which means winning a few titles first. so its a circle;))
I know a few people in Florida who do this as a part time hobby, and most of them are retired. for retired people its great.

So if my daughter asks me one day this question ( Daddy, should I drop out of college to play bridge full time? you know what I am going to answer, beside of the fact that I would be thrilled;))).

One more point here.

Rubber bridge is a diferent story. If you have the money and nerves to play high stake games in rubber bridge, then some really serious money can be earned ( or lost). I suspect this is closer to poker then tournament bridge. I would like to invite someone with experience in rubber bridge to write something more.

Please have in mind that this are my personal views based on limited experience and are speculations for the most part. I am certainly not the best qualified person to answer your questions.

[Aberlour10]

Is it overstated to say....the present and the future of "extra class" bridge is hinging on only 15-20 persons, top sponsors, mostly US citizens who love this game and are able to sponsor real world class teams? Could the bridge at the highest level exist without them? Is there a danger for bridge if the "ring of them" decreases?

Robert

[blackshoe]

Wealth is not a matter of how much you make, really. It's more what you do with it. Years ago, I read one of those "how to get rich" books. Most of the advice was only mildly interesting, but I do remember the author describing two extremes of "wealth": the guy who inherits a multi-million dollar mansion in Beverly Hills, but can't afford to furnish it, and lives on peanut butter sandwiches, and the guy who makes $100K a year, and blows every dime on volatile things - wine, women, and song, if you will. Neither is really "wealthy", when you get right down to it - because they're not using their "wealth" wisely.

[han]

That's what my neighbor thinks too, I'm just glad I drive a bigger car than he does.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on Apr 15 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

Wealth is not a matter of how much you make, really. It's more what you do with it. Years ago, I read one of those "how to get rich" books. Most of the advice was only mildly interesting, but I do remember the author describing two extremes of "wealth": the guy who inherits a multi-million dollar mansion in Beverly Hills, but can't afford to furnish it, and lives on peanut butter sandwiches, and the guy who makes $100K a year, and blows every dime on volatile things - wine, women, and song, if you will. Neither is really "wealthy", when you get right down to it - because they're not using their "wealth" wisely.

True. But if you don't have the money to begin with, you don't even have the opportunity to spend it wisely. There are two steps:

1. Make (or inherit) lots of $$
2. Don't blow it.

If you can't do #1, #2 doesn't really matter.

[bill1157]

Playing bridge for money has some obvious benefits besides making a living (which is unlikely anyway). I used to play in a 2 cent game a few years ago and really learned alot. I was playing with and against players who were much better than i could on my own (2 of them decided a few years ago to try duplicate because it "looked like fun" and they now have 5,000 and 3,000 points respectively)
Anyway, the individual ACBL tournaments on Bridgebase closely mimic playing bridge for money, so i would suggest playing in those until you are doing well, then try money bridge.

Bill

[bill1157]

The reasons bridge isn't as conducive to being played for money as poker are also reasons why bridge is not more popular generally.
1. the vulnerability: why should a grand score only 40 points more than a small slam just because 1 was vulnerable and one not? - duplicate solves that issue, but not rubber or chicago.
2. need a natural, standard bidding system. You cant play realistically if you must have a 20 minute system discussion after every rubber (or 4th hand).
Also, the bidding must be simple enough so you avoid the huge losses on misunderstanding (is that a transfer or not etc.)

On the system issue, i think rubber bridge/bridge for money could be revived if you could come out with a totally natural system that would be fun to play, coherent, and takes in all the advances in bidding treatments that have been made over the last many years.


Bill