[jillybean]

Playing in the imp league at the club, this is the very first hand you pick up:

xx
Ax
Jx
AQJxxxx

Your partner in 1st position opens 1♣, pass to you.

What are you going to do, you dont have any nifty gadgets like criss cross or
even inverted minors.

[jillybean]

I bid 5♣
We went -1 and my pard couldnt understand why I didnt bid 3♣ and isnt interested in adding a forcing minor raise. I'm the rookie here!

[Codo]

YOur hand is simply not right for 3 Club.
You will bid 3 Club on Kxx, x, Qxxx, AJxxx.
The playing strength of your hand is much bigger.

I agree with Justin that a forcing minor raise is very important.

I think I had tried 3 NT, knowing that this will be a disaster more then once, but I ecpect a weak NT hand from Partner, so maybe this is the right spot more often then not.

Am I happy with this? NO, no way. But I have to guess the final contract because I cannot bid the way I want.

[Cascade]

You know criss-cross Kathryn.

Perfect for this hand.

[jillybean]

Cascade, on Apr 4 2008, 02:32 AM, said:

You know criss-cross Kathryn.

Perfect for this hand.

Yeah I do, but unfortunately you weren't sitting oppsite

[jtfanclub]

Jlall, on Apr 4 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

You can't play bridge without a forcing raise in a minor.

And yet, every day, thousands of people sit down at a bridge table, take 13 cards, and bid and play them, thinking that they're playing bridge....

It was the lack of a forcing raise that actually got me started in Precision. I couldn't handle the gaping holes in Standard American, and this has to be one of the biggest.

I would bid 3NT. I'm a strong believer in praying in 3NT.

[cherdano]

Wow, you started playing precision because you didn't want to start inverted minors? That sounds a bit like moving to a new house because there are no chairs around your dining table.

[jdonn]

cherdano, on Apr 4 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

Wow, you started playing precision because you didn't want to start inverted minors? That sounds a bit like moving to a new house because there are no chairs around your dining table.

Bravo for the analogy

[han]

Great post Arend.

[jtfanclub]

cherdano, on Apr 4 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

Wow, you started playing precision because you didn't want to start inverted minors? That sounds a bit like moving to a new house because there are no chairs around your dining table.

I was 12. At the time, at the local club, inverted minors weren't forcing. I found a bunch of similar holes and said that I didn't understand how this system could work. So one of the people at the club (who was one of the better players in the country, but I had no idea at the time), said that if I thought I could make a better system, he'd play it with me. So I did.

He looked at the scheme, and pointed out that what I was doing was very similar to what some Chinese team was doing, and lent me a couple of books. I read C.C. Wei and I think it was Goren's book on Precision and I was hooked.

I liken it more to moving to a new house because the roof has a dozen leaks, and after you get the roof repaired, it's now down to 11 leaks.

[hrothgar]

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I bid 5♣
We went -1 and my pard couldnt understand why I didnt bid 3♣ and isnt interested in a forcing minor raise. I'm the rookie here!

Hi Kathryn:

Given the constraint (no forcing minor raise), 5♣ seems reasonable.

I think that the 3♣ suggestion is ridiculous. The only other bid that I find remotely appealing is 1♦. With luck, partner will rebid either 1N or 1♠ and you can bid 3N.

[Cascade]

hrothgar, on Apr 5 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I bid 5♣ 
We went -1 and my pard couldnt understand why I didnt bid 3♣ and isnt interested in a forcing minor raise. I'm the rookie here!

Hi Kathryn:

Given the constraint (no forcing minor raise), 5♣ seems reasonable.

I think that the 3♣ suggestion is ridiculous. The only other bid that I find remotely appealing is 1♦. With luck, partner will rebid either 1N or 1♠ and you can bid 3N.

I once saw my partner bid 1♦ with 2=2=1=8 because he had forgotten that we agreed to play "criss-cross" or as he called it "other minor".

The opponent's accused him of psyching.

[jillybean]

hrothgar, on Apr 4 2008, 09:15 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I bid 5♣  
We went -1 and my pard couldnt understand why I didnt bid 3♣ and isnt interested in a forcing minor raise. I'm the rookie here!

Hi Kathryn:

Given the constraint (no forcing minor raise), 5♣ seems reasonable.

I think that the 3♣ suggestion is ridiculous. The only other bid that I find remotely appealing is 1♦. With luck, partner will rebid either 1N or 1♠ and you can bid 3N.

Hey Richard,

Im learning you cant teach old dogs with a few MP's new tricks

My p is a wonderful person and is easy to play with but I dont think we'll be
at any BBowl anytime soon. We seem to have a few large holes in our bidding.

[neilkaz]

I also really HATE to play without a forcing minor raise and simple INVM is good enough for me.

I do think that a direct jump to 5♣ is too commital here as you could belong in 3NT with 5♣ off 1 for example or could be making 6♣ if opener has a good hand and he has to guess over 5♣.

I'd risk 1♦ here and hope that if raised in ♦ PD will respect a 5♣ sign off.

1♦ may get us to 3NT and also allows PD to jump with a good hand which means we may have a slam.

3♣ is a limit raise in your system isn't it ? Your hand is too good for that ! What if you bid 1♦ and then jump to 3♣ ? Wouldn't that be a forcing sequence since you failed to make a direct limit raise ? (I won't play seriously w/out INVM so I am not sure)

.. neilkaz ..

[jillybean]

neilkaz, on Apr 4 2008, 11:24 AM, said:

What if you bid 1♦ and then jump to 3♣ ? Wouldn't that be a forcing sequence since you failed to make a direct limit raise ? (I won't play seriously w/out INVM so I am not sure)

.. neilkaz ..

My p will never believe I have this hand if I respond 1♦ then ♣'s, but it should be 100% forcing - I hope.

[neilkaz]

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 12:52 PM, said:

neilkaz, on Apr 4 2008, 11:24 AM, said:

What if you bid 1♦ and then jump to 3♣ ? Wouldn't that be a forcing sequence since you failed to make a direct limit raise ? (I won't play seriously w/out INVM so I am not sure)

.. neilkaz ..

My p will never believe I have this hand if I respond 1♦ then ♣'s, but it should be 100% forcing - I hope.

Then you really need a forcing minor suit raise or you're left guessing as here.

If you can't agree on INVM, perhaps play 1m-3m as forcing and make a different initial bid with a limit raise.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 01:36 AM, said:

Playing in the imp league at the club, this is the very first hand you pick up:

xx
Ax
Jx
AQJxxxx

Your partner in 1st position opens 1♣, pass to you.

What are you going to do, you dont have any nifty gadgets like criss cross or
even inverted minors.

Hi,

you can always bid 4C, which is certainly
forcing and starts a slam auction.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cascade]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 5 2008, 08:44 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 01:36 AM, said:

Playing in the imp league at the club, this is the very first hand you pick up:

xx
Ax
Jx
AQJxxxx

Your partner in 1st position opens 1♣, pass to you.

What are you going to do, you dont have any nifty gadgets like criss cross or
even inverted minors.

Hi,

you can always bid 4C, which is certainly
forcing and starts a slam auction.

With kind regards
Marlowe

I would think that many would play a jump to 4♣ was pre-emptive. I certainly would not be sure in a non-practised partnership. I doubt I have ever discussed the auction except with my most regular partners.

[han]

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 12:20 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Apr 4 2008, 09:15 AM, said:

jillybean2, on Apr 4 2008, 10:37 AM, said:

I bid 5♣  
We went -1 and my pard couldnt understand why I didnt bid 3♣ and isnt interested in a forcing minor raise. I'm the rookie here!

Hi Kathryn:

Given the constraint (no forcing minor raise), 5♣ seems reasonable.

I think that the 3♣ suggestion is ridiculous. The only other bid that I find remotely appealing is 1♦. With luck, partner will rebid either 1N or 1♠ and you can bid 3N.

Hey Richard,

Im learning you cant teach old dogs with a few MP's new tricks

My p is a wonderful person and is easy to play with but I dont think we'll be
at any BBowl anytime soon. We seem to have a few large holes in our bidding.

I like this attitude but also agree with the others that having a forcing raise really is a must in competitive bridge. I'm not a big fan of criss cross but it's surely better than nothing.

Agree that 5♣ was the best bid under these conditions.