[jocdelevat]

[FONT=Courier]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 Pass  Pass  Pass  1NT
 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♥
 Pass  2♠    Pass  ?


do you agree with 1nt?
what should I bid now?

[the hog]

Agree with 1NT. Pass now.

[helene_t]

I must admit I don't know what 2♠ means in "standard". Here in Lancaster it is non-forcing with four spades (2NT would deny a 4-card major since an immediate natural 2NT was not available). In the Netherlands, many people revert this. OTOH if an immediate natural 2NT was available, I suppose it's better used as invitational with 5+ spades, like you would play it if not playing transfers.

[dicklont]

I agree with 1NT.

2♠ = 8-9 hcp and 4 spades for now.
I would bid 2NT, since 3♥ could be in a 5-2 fit and this will probably end the auction.
If 3♥ was better, tough luck, next board.

[vuroth]

I would assume partner has 5♠ and 4♥.

3♥ for me.

[P_Marlowe]

Why do you ask the forum about the 1NT opener?
If it is your partnership agreement, than the bid
is fine, if not than not.
Personnally I would not have opened 1 NT, but I
don mind.

Hopefully you know, what 2S means?

#1 4-4 in the mayors is out, he cant hold
4 hearts, I have shown 4, we have a fit,
he should confirm the fit.

#2 Does your partnership play transfer?
If not, than partner will bid this way with 5 spades
and inv. values.
If yes, he cant hold 5 spades with a weak / inv. hand,
he would have used transfer.

#3 A forcing heart raise is out as well, partner
is a passed hand.

#4 there may be another explanation

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hrothgar]

I echo Helene's comment: I'm not sure what 2♠ means in your partnership, so its tricky to recommend an appropriate bid.

I play that 2♠ shows invitational values with exactly 5 Spades in a number of partnerships. (It's nice not to need to transfer to Spades and then rebid 2NT)

If I were playing this, I'd be sorely tempted to try for game. Yes, I have a pretty lousy hand, but I do have Aces, ruffing values, and a five card suit...

[the hog]

vuroth, on Mar 14 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

I would assume partner has 5♠ and 4♥.

3♥ for me.

Vuroth that is the one holding she CANNOT have or she is insane. With H she would raise for heaven's sake!

[jocdelevat]

sorry I have no agreement about what 2s mean neither if 1nt can be with 5 card major. I play with pick up partners most of them intermediates. In the past I tried to avoid open 1nt with 5 card major because imo most b//i do not play that. I tried with this hand to see what comes up and I recognize I didn't know to bid after 2s.
I suppose 2h doesn't denny 4 spades so thats why 2s.
I was curios in whats standard in this auction.

[helene_t]

This problem is not related to opening 1NT with a 5-card major. If one of your hearts had been a club or a diamond, you would have had the same problem.

I think you should pass now. Yes you could miss 4♥ but 2NT probably won't lead to 4♥ either, and 3♥ may take you too high.

[vuroth]

The_Hog, on Mar 14 2008, 08:37 AM, said:

vuroth, on Mar 14 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

I would assume partner has 5♠ and 4♥.

3♥ for me.

Vuroth that is the one holding she CANNOT have or she is insane. With H she would raise for heaven's sake!

I don't agree, though I'm prepared to be convinced that I'm wrong.

With 4/4 in the majors, you bid 2♥ over a stayman response.

With 54xx, you start with Stayman. If partner bids 2S, you raise. If partner bids a red suit, you bid 2S to show your shape.

This way, if you're 54xx opposite 44xx, you play in your better fit.

AT least, this was my understanding of how to play it. (Obviously, other systems are valid here as well, for example if you don't play transfers.)


There's a whole set of Learn to Play Bridge sets on BBO, one of which is answering 1NT, and it covers 4/5 and 5/5 in the majors. I'll have to review it tonight, maybe I'm misremembering what it says.

V

[Gerben42]

Whatever you do, don't pass. If partner is weak for Stayman, he has both majors. He doesn't have both majors, so partner isn't weak.

Bid 2NT, showing a minimum without 4♠.

[han]

I would pass, assuming that 2S shows an invitational hand with exactly 4 spades.

I agree with The_Hog about the meaning for 2S but I think he should tone down a little bit in the B/I forum.

[andy_h]

han, on Mar 14 2008, 10:12 AM, said:

I would pass, assuming that 2S shows an invitational hand with exactly 4 spades.

Agreed

[Codo]

The_Hog, on Mar 14 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

vuroth, on Mar 14 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

I would assume partner has 5♠ and 4♥.

3♥ for me.

Vuroth that is the one holding she CANNOT have or she is insane. With H she would raise for heaven's sake!

Ron, I believe that in polish club 2 Spade shows exactly 5 Spades and 4 Hearts.
But even if not, I at least know some guys who play it this way.
So your tone really was way too harsh.


For the actual hand:
If I have no agreement whether 1 NT can contend 5 card majors and when I have no idea what 2 Spade shows, I would never pass.
I will try 2 NT.

[kenrexford]

I echo the sentiment that we need an explanation of 2♠, although passing may be right across from almost any meaning.

[Cascade]

Unless 2♠ has some esoteric meaning that I am not aware of then 2NT seems very normal - minimum without a spade fit.

We use 2♠ to show a forcing hand with four spades and 2NT instead would deny a major since we do not have a way to invite directly without a major - 1NT 2NT is artificial. Many others e.g. those that play four suit transfers will have similar problems.

[the hog]

Codo, on Mar 14 2008, 10:28 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 14 2008, 10:37 PM, said:

vuroth, on Mar 14 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

I would assume partner has 5♠ and 4♥.

3♥ for me.

Vuroth that is the one holding she CANNOT have or she is insane. With H she would raise for heaven's sake!

Ron, I believe that in polish club 2 Spade shows exactly 5 Spades and 4 Hearts.
But even if not, I at least know some guys who play it this way.
So your tone really was way too harsh.


For the actual hand:
If I have no agreement whether 1 NT can contend 5 card majors and when I have no idea what 2 Spade shows, I would never pass.
I will try 2 NT.

Hi Roland I just looked up the sequence in Matula's Book and looked at Balicki's notes. This sequence is not mentioned as showing 5S - 4H etc. If you play transfers and wish to force to game why would it anyway? Thirdly if pd has shown H and you have 4 card support, why would you futz around by introducing S - trying to suggest a lead for the opponents? Perhaps "insane" is strong, but foolish isn't.

[vuroth]

BBO -> Other Bridge Activities -> Learn to Play Bridge -> Bidding - Responding to 1NT and 2NT revisited -> When responder has both majors

First page, 3 key bullets

1. With less than invitational strength, the responder should transfer to his longest and strongest major suit and then pass when his partner completes the transfer.

2. When responder has exactly 5 cards in one major suit, 4 cards in the other major suit, and at least invitational strength, he should start by using Stayman.

3. When the responder has at least 5 cards in both major suits and at least invitational strength, he should start with a Jacoby transfer bid.

However, from there, I got it wrong. A few pages later, it shows the following hand:

KQT83
K974
6
982

"The responder should start by bidding 2C, the Stayman conventions. If the opener shows a 4 card major by bidding 2H or 2S next, this hand becomes strong enough to raise the opener's major to game (since the singleton diamond is worth 3 support points once an 8 card fit is revealed."

If the opener denies a 4-card major by responding 2D to the Stayman inquiry, the responder should rebid his 5-card major next (2S in this case). This sequence describes an invitational hand with 5S and 4H. The opener will be in a good position to select the best final contract".




Apologies for my misinformation. Maybe I'll remember this better when it comes up at the table.

V

[gwnn]

This was not misinformation, it's just that the Learn to Play Bridge is not 100% true and indubitable info, it's just outlining a playable and simple system for everyone. Many people play 1NT-2♣-2♦-2♥=weak hand with 4-4 or better in the majors and 1NT-2♦-2♥-2♠=invitational, 5♥4♠ and 1NT-2♣-2♦-2♠ as invitational with 5♠'s and maybe 4♥'s