[hrothgar]

Does anyone else find it amusing to see the radical difference in bidding styles between the thread discussion whether its better to open 1NT or 1♦ and this thread discussing 1NT overcalls?

[jdonn]

hrothgar, on Mar 7 2008, 12:34 PM, said:

Does anyone else find it amusing to see the radical difference in bidding styles between the thread discussion whether its better to open 1NT or 1♦ and this thread discussing 1NT overcalls?

Overcalls are about 10 times more dangerous since you are very exposed to a penalty double, and about 10 times less productive since you are far less likely to have game. On top of that if you have a balanced 15-17 and open anything but 1NT, you will have to show your hand as something other than balanced 15-17 at some point. So it all makes sense to me.

I am actually surprised at the responses in this thread though. I agree with most of the judgments but I didn't expect to see them.

* 10 times = my own estimates

[helene_t]

hrothgar, on Mar 7 2008, 06:34 PM, said:

Does anyone else find it amusing to see the radical difference in bidding styles between the thread discussion whether its better to open 1NT or 1♦ and this thread discussing 1NT overcalls?

Not amusing, but maybe it teaches an important point. There are several differences between 1NT overcalls and 1NT openings.

[awm]

Agree that pass is slightly better, but I don't have a real problem with 1NT on this hand.

Why do people think it's okay to double 1♠ with a much weaker balanced hand (even a 3433 balanced hand) but "too dangerous" to overcall 1NT with an extra king? It's not like double gets you out any lower (still can't play below 1NT) and LHO has a redouble to head-hunt if he wants. Phil even indicated that "he would power double if he had one available"... why is this safer than overcalling? Sure sometimes 1NT plays better from partner's side, but a lot of times it won't, especially a lot of the times you're going for a number it won't much matter who declares.

Obviously it helps to have good runouts after 1NT is doubled for penalty.

[han]

The more spades you have, the less likely you have a fit and the more dangerous it is to enter the auction.

[jdonn]

awm, on Mar 7 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

Why do people think it's okay to double 1♠ with a much weaker balanced hand (even a 3433 balanced hand) but "too dangerous" to overcall 1NT with an extra king?

It's much harder to double a suit for penalties after a takeout double, even after a redouble. If they are 5-1 the 1 might pull, if they are 3-3 they might not be able to double, not to mention if you have a fit it's extremely difficult to double you even if it's right. It's also much harder after a 1NT overcall for a weak partner to know when to run or not. The safety issues are not even comparable. In fact on the original hand if you switch the hearts and diamonds then I would prefer double over 1NT.

I do not agree with your use of the word "much" either, at least not as I would advocate.

[pclayton]

awm, on Mar 7 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

Agree that pass is slightly better, but I don't have a real problem with 1NT on this hand.

Why do people think it's okay to double 1♠ with a much weaker balanced hand (even a 3433 balanced hand) but "too dangerous" to overcall 1NT with an extra king? It's not like double gets you out any lower (still can't play below 1NT) and LHO has a redouble to head-hunt if he wants. Phil even indicated that "he would power double if he had one available"... why is this safer than overcalling? Sure sometimes 1NT plays better from partner's side, but a lot of times it won't, especially a lot of the times you're going for a number it won't much matter who declares.

Obviously it helps to have good runouts after 1NT is doubled for penalty.

I think I can safely say that there isn't a single suit combination across the table from A432 where the NT isn't superior (or at least equal) played by pard.

Just because I like a power double with this hand however, doesn't imply that I mind a 1N overcall, because I don't. A power double gives us many more options on the hand, and pard won't automatically play us for a perfect shape.

[cherdano]

I am surprised about all the 1N overcall haters, I love overcalling 1N!
(But I wouldn't on this hand. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that with 4 spades, we are less likely to miss game. If partner has some points, he will be able to double if he is not of the need-a-mountain-to-act-in-sandwich-seat school.)

[P_Marlowe]

I have done it.

It may even be your best bet, if you play
with a partner you rarely know, because
it may simplify the later auction.

The risk exists, but there is also a risk, if you
pass, ... may be cheaper.

With kind regards
Marlowe