[firmit]

After 3./4. seat, I use Toronto/drury after 1♥/♠ opening.
With one partner I use
2♣ 3 card support GI
2♦ 4 card support GI

Another partner I use
2♣ 3+ support GI

My question is - should the 2♦ response remain natural, or should it be used to distinguish 3 and 4 card support? Or is this a "I like chicken better than turkey"-type of question?

[Walddk]

Matter of style. If you think you can do without 2♦ as natural, by all means go ahead and distinguish between 3 and 4 card support. By using Drury (or Toronto as it's called in some parts of the world) you have already taken one natural bid (2♣) away.

I have played both variations in many partnerships, but I can't really tell which is better. 2♦ has the downside that opener can't use it as a "waiting bid", whatever people use that for.

As an aside, I have had a look at your template generator (mentioned in your signature). It seems very good and here is my suggestion:

Offer it to the BBF by sending an e-mail to uday(at)bridgebase.com I have asked questions about a template a few times and I have made a reference to a Danish bridge web site where they use something similar. We still don't have one here, and I think it's much needed.

I often give up on showing a complete auction because the various calls are displayed all over the place. You can't be sure who bid what, or at least it takes some guesswork.

Roland

[fred]

Having been born in Toronto and having spent most of my life living in that fine city, I am dismayed to learn that its name has become associated with this convention!

My opinion:

Unless you frequently open 4-card majors in 3rd/4th seat on hands that could easily produce a game (not a practice I would recommend), you should definitely not play any form of 2-way Drury that identifies the # of trumps responder has.

2-way Drury helps the opponents much more than it helps you.

Suppose the opening bidder has no interest in game. Do you think he cares how many trumps you have? Well maybe he will care when he has to play the hand, but there is no harm waiting until the dummy comes down in order for him to find out.

Meanwhile the opponents certainly care - knowing whether the responder has 3 or 4 trumps will make it easier for them to know whether or not to balance. If they don't balance, gratuitously giving them this information that you don't need could easily help them to find the most effective opening lead.

Now suppose the opener does have interest in game. Either he cares about how many trumps responder has or he doesn't. If he doesn't care then obviously it can only be bad to give the opponents this information.

If he does care there are other ways he can find out (for example, he can reply 2D to 1-way-Drury-2C and responder can jump if he has 4 trumps).

For me this is not about giving up the natural 2D. If given the choice between:

1) Playing 2-way Drury
2) Playing 2C as Drury and never bidding 2D natural

I would chose 2 (Edited - I said 1 by mistake when I made my original post)

The snake oil salesmen have had a field day with this convention

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[awm]

I'll throw in an ad for Elianna's version of Drury.

This uses 2♦ as the only drury raise and 2♣ as natural. There is a slight disadvantage in that you can't use the 2♦ waiting bid, but this is not a really big deal because you still have space to use your normal methods over a single raise, or to look for a heart fit after P-1♠-2♦.

The advantage is that you free up 2♣ as a natural bid. For those players using 2♦ as a preempt, a passed hand is much more likely to have a bunch of clubs than a bunch of diamonds (some of the diamond hands open 2♦, but almost no one plays a weak two in clubs). You're also more likely to get to 2♦ after a 1NT response (partner will fairly often rebid 2♣, over which you can correct) whereas you will never get to play 2♣ in responder's long club suit after a 1NT reply.

[pclayton]

Echo what Fred says.

I've used 2-way reverse drury only under duress in one partnership. The number of trump is absolutely irrelevant at responder's turn, except to the opponents who would like to know if:

1. They should compete over 2♦ or over 2 major, since 8 trump are guaranteed and 9 trump are likely. They also have the chance to throw in a lead director.

2. If responder has 3 trump, a trump lead is a lot more appealing by the defense.

If opener has extra values, you can sort it out, but I will admit in one partnership we have very detailed follow-ups after 2♣. No matter what you agree on, 2♦ should be a hand that is about to make a game try, unless responder rebids 2M. Don't monkey with 2♦ if you have a hand that is worth exactly game.

[blackshoe]

I can't speak to the technical merits of any form of Drury, and I never heard of "Toronto/drury", but an expert friend of mine taught me a variant which, it is my understanding, he learned from friends of his in Toronto:

2♣ is 6+ points and 4 trumps. Opener may now bid 2♦ (normal Reverse Drury meaning) or 2M. Over Opener's 2♦, 2M shows 6-9 points.

2♦ is invitational or better, 3 trumps.

There's probably more to it that I've forgotten (no one else I know has even heard of this method, except probably my friend's girl friend, who lives in Toronto).

I have no idea how useful this is - to either side. When my friend and I were playing regularly, it never came up.