[kgr]

Bidding:
MP's; W/-
(1S)-2D-(3S)-P
(4S)-All pass
You partner did overcall 2D and you have ♦8532, but you did not have the chance to show support. 3S was limit raise.
      Qxxx
      AJxx
      xx
      Kxx
xxx
Qxx
8532
xxx
 
You partner leads ♦A and follows with ♦K. According to your agreements ♣ is obvious switch and you should therfore encourage ♦:
- Do you play the ♦8 or 5?
You partner continous with ♦K. Which ♦ do you play now and what does it show? Are you able to show 4-card ♦?

[Dean]

Hi

First I encourage with the 8. Thats told partner I can't stand a club switch
Don't try to hedge your bets with the 5 the first time. this is an attitude (obvious switch) situation so give partner the information they need.

There are no degree's of encouragement, one either encourage or discourages.

Second I now give current count - so now the 2.
If partner now thinks I have a doubleton thats too bad.

Dean

[mike777]

Dean, on Nov 21 2007, 08:04 PM, said:

Hi

First I encourage with the 8. Thats told partner I can't stand a club switch
Don't try to hedge your bets with the 5 the first time. this is an attitude (obvious switch) situation so give partner the information they need.

There are no degree's of encouragement, one either encourage or discourages.

Second I now give current count - so now the  2.
If partner now thinks I have a doubleton thats too bad.

Dean

no no no........this is not "OS"
You almost never give count and not here at trick two. You almost always give suit preference as you should here.

Play the 5D at trick......attitude to encourage
Play the 8D at trick two suit preference.. to show something in hearts. It is not a demand for hearts but now partner knows.....you have more than 2D and nothing in clubs. "OS"

[kenrexford]

I like that approach. The next time I have a 50-50 guess in hearts, please tell me that you have the Queen.

In other words...

With this dummy, my only interest about what we are playing is to decide how to falsecard.

[Codo]

IF I want to show my heart preference, I play the 8 then the 5.

But this is a very tricky hand for OS.

1. I do not want pd to play a possible third round of Diamonds.
2. I do not want him to switch to Heart if he does not hold the king.

I love OS but I see no convincing way to solve these dilemmas in a legal way.
I think at mps, I had played the 8 followed by the 3. If this diamond is ruffed, pd knows that I have nothing in clubs, but no real help in Hearts too. But if declarer has two diamonds this may lead to a disaster, cause pd will play a third round for a ruff´n´sluff.

[mike777]

Codo, on Nov 22 2007, 03:18 AM, said:

IF I want to show my heart preference, I play the 8 then the 5.

But this is a very tricky hand for OS.

1. I do not want pd to play a possible third round of Diamonds.
2. I do not want him to switch to Heart if he does not hold the king.

I love OS but I see no convincing way to solve these dilemmas in a legal way.
I think at mps, I had played the 8 followed by the 3. If this diamond is ruffed, pd knows that I have nothing in clubs, but no real help in Hearts too. But if declarer has two diamonds this may lead to a disaster, cause pd will play a third round for a ruff´n´sluff.

guys I told you what to play in OS...this is a very easy typical OS hand.
IF you do not want to tell partner about the H then play the 3D and then 5D.....easy.
In any case do not play the 8D or 2D at trick one, easy.
I repeat this comes up all the time in OS and is why there are 200 pages in the book.

[Codo]

mike777, on Nov 23 2007, 12:36 AM, said:

guys I told you what to play in OS...this is a very easy typical OS hand.
IF you do not want to tell partner about the H then play the 3D and then 5D.....easy.
In any case do not play the 8D or 2D at trick one, easy.
I repeat this comes up all the time in OS and is why there are 200 pages in the book.

??? Sorry Mike this is nonsense.

Any partner will read the 3 as positive about clubs. Of course you can do so, but why should I show pd the willingness to switch to Club if I simply cannot stand it?
This is like giving the wrong attitude or length signal without any reason.

Oh I forgot, your opponents always play their lowest cards when you lead an honour, so when they do not show the 2, then partner knowse that you hold it?
Sorry, this is not going to happen. The 3 is no clear sign, you "must" play the 2.

[mike777]

Codo, on Nov 22 2007, 10:55 AM, said:

mike777, on Nov 23 2007, 12:36 AM, said:

guys I told you what to play in OS...this is a very easy typical OS hand.
IF you do not want to tell partner about the H then play the 3D and then 5D.....easy.
In any case do not play the 8D or 2D at trick one, easy.
I repeat this comes up all the time in OS and is why there are 200 pages in the book.

??? Sorry Mike this is nonsense.

Any partner will read the 3 as positive about clubs. Of course you can do so, but why should I show pd the willingness to switch to Club if I simply cannot stand it?
This is like giving the wrong attitude or length signal without any reason.

Oh I forgot, your opponents always play their lowest cards when you lead an honour, so when they do not show the 2, then partner knowse that you hold it?
Sorry, this is not going to happen. The 3 is no clear sign, you "must" play the 2.

nonono..playing the 2 is not OS..you can do whatever you want but that is not OS. As I said before I play the 5D and then the 8D. Telling people to play the 2 at trick one is not OS. Playing high low at trick one and two is not OS..It is nonsense.

I repeat this hand type comes up all time..if you play the 2 or play high low..ok just do not call it "OS" you must play some higher card at trick one and then a higher one than that at trick two.

"I love OS but I see no convincing way to solve these dilemmas in a legal way."


Your most basic claim that you cannot solve this issue in a legal manner is just wrong.

btw partner should not read the 3 played at trick one as a clear signal to shift the 2 is missing and knows you might have this hand type and cannot play the 2ofD. Again this is very common in OS. Yes he will not be sure who has the two.....he should assume you have it and may have played the 3D from 832.

[brianshark]

If you do not signal with your loudest cards, partner will assume you don't have them, therefore he will play you for doubleton/tripleton rather than quadrupleton and his obvious safe exit is to play another round of the suit.

While I'm not certain the OS agreements here, I suggest that if you signal on the first round with the 8 (encouraging in diamonds / discouraging in clubs) and then play a suit preference 2 (asking for clubs), partner will take you for either having both diamond and club strength, or neither. And I expect him to figure out which.

This obviously lets him defend as he sees fit. Hopefully a safe trump exit.

[pclayton]

Play the 8 1st. That's clear.

As far as the 2nd round, I don't think the spot 'gradiates' the 1st signal. Suit preference comes in at later plays, especially by opening leader.

I would just play the 2 on the theory that pard will probably blow a trick if he plays a 3rd round of the suit and he needs to know I started with an even #.

Furthermore, look at that dummy. We want pard to go as passive as possible.

[mike777]

I think some posters are confused about OS. Playing high low at trick one and two in OS never promises an even number. It may mean that in your style but not in OS. Yes you may have an even number but it does not promise that.

Simply put OS almost never gives count.

[Codo]

Hi Mike

you are still welcome to show me the page where the Granovetters say:
"Don´t signal with your clearest card, if you have 8532 play the 3 if you want a switch not the two."
They wrote more then once that signals should be as clear as they could be. Feel free to reread the book and profe me wrong if you can.

But to repeat your opinion won´t help.

Of course it is corret that in OS the second card does not show length, it shows suit preference. This is why we have a problem here.

[mike777]

Codo, on Nov 23 2007, 03:38 AM, said:

Hi Mike

you are still welcome to show me the page where the Granovetters say:
"Don´t signal with your clearest card, if you have 8532 play the 3 if you want a switch not the two."
They wrote more then once that signals should be as clear as they could be. Feel free to reread the book and profe me wrong if you can.

But to repeat your opinion won´t help.

Of course it is corret that in OS the second card does not show length, it shows suit preference. This is why we have a problem here.

I play the 5 as I said in my first post. Then the 8. That is about as clear as I know how to make it.