[skjaeran]

Scoring: IMP

P 1♥ 2♣ 4♥
4♠ P 4NT P
?

---

Here you take my seat in another hand from the district teams championship.

1. Do you agree with 4♠?
2. What is 4NT and what's your bid?

[whereagles]

4NT = 6-keys dbl fit rolling turbo RKCB.

I'll just bid 6♣ now.

[ArtK78]

4♠ is fine. Partner could have a fit for spades.

4NT says no, I don't have a fit for spades - but I have diamonds in addition to clubs just in case your 4♠ bid was based on a long suit and not on a club fit.

I bid 5♣ now.

We do have what appears to be great fitting hands. But there is no way partner knows that I have this much and would bid RKCB on this auction. 4NT has to be for the minors. It would take a lot for slam to make (although partner might have it).

[Blofeld]

Interesting hand.

I agree with 4♠.

As I see it, there are three reasonable meanings for 4NT:
a) Natural, suggestion to play.
RKCBW for clubs.
c) General slam try - after all this is the only bid available below 5♣.

The last of these seems by some way the most useful, so I'll assume that that's what 4NT means.

I definitely want to accept. I think I also want to bid something useful en route as partner could still (just about) be looking for the grand. 5♦. Maybe this is overthinking things.

[keylime]

I like 4♠, because it infers a decent raise to 5♣.

I'd take 4NT as not RKCB - I would take it as a "pard, I'm pretty good here, how good are you? I'm interested in higher things.".

Our hand is good in context:

1. We own three hearts, which is a good thing. Pard's likely void.
2. We have first round control of the unbid suit, diamonds.
3. Honor-third for pard in his overcall and then he bids 4NT? Excellent.
4. Lastly, spades are not too bad.

I take the plunge at 6♣.

[whereagles]

We're a passed hand. Because of that 4S must show club tolerance, so pard would pull to 5C if he disliked spades.

[Halo]

4S is good.

4NT depends on your style.

I'd respond RKCB and convert 5S to 6C. If partner bids 7C over my RKCB response, I guess he must be:

AQx,A,x,A(Q)(x)xxxxxx

[vang]

1. 4♠ is perfect. obviously with club support/tolerance.
2. 4nt general slam try (or kcbw? agreements here?). anyway, strong move towards some slam. i'll continue with 6♣

[pclayton]

4N is keycard for spades.

4N isn't some vague, amorphous general slam try / last train crap.

We've lost the ability to find diamonds - with ♠/♦ my hand doesn't bid 4♠, it makes a responsive double.

[Edmunte1]

1. 4♠ is fine, showing 5♠ and fit in clubs (Hx+)
2. 4NT shows extras and is definitely a slam try, asking for further description. I have the best possible hand for 4♠, so i'll cue-bid my Ace of diamonds - 5♦, the grand has definitely a good chance. Over 5♥ i'll bid 5NT

[keylime]

Phil,

Question for you.

How would one then make a slam try in the club suit versus the spade suit? Surely it isn't 6ARKCB in this auction when they may be bidding 5♥ to further things. Additionally, I'd assume that we're using some form of DOPI/DEPO when they come in, but would that have been discussed prior? What would 5NT or 5♥ be in this instance?

I agree with the principle that diamonds are not in the picture here; otherwise I'm doubling if it's our hand. I can't tho see since 4♠ hit the table, that it's RKC in a competitive auction. Then again, in highly competitive auctions ace-asking is somewhat rare versus cuebidding and other defined calls.

[the hog]

I would prefer a slightly more robulst S suit for a 4S bid eg KQxxx, (wouldn't we all). but, pd knows I have a C fit as I am a passed hand.
4NT is KC for S - agree with Phil.

[jdonn]

If you believe 4♠ promises a club fit then why wouldn't 4NT be keycard for clubs, the only known fit and the suit that was supported (assuming it's keycard at all)

[pclayton]

Wow it sure is convenient to pretend 4♠ promises a club fit doesn't it?

If we held: KQJxx, xxx, Axxx, x we'd all bid 4♠ without thinking twice wouldn't we?

[pclayton]

keylime, on Nov 21 2007, 04:05 PM, said:

Phil,

Question for you.

How would one then make a slam try in the club suit versus the spade suit? Surely it isn't 6ARKCB in this auction when they may be bidding 5♥ to further things. Additionally, I'd assume that we're using some form of DOPI/DEPO when they come in, but would that have been discussed prior? What would 5NT or 5♥ be in this instance?

I agree with the principle that diamonds are not in the picture here; otherwise I'm doubling if it's our hand. I can't tho see since 4♠ hit the table, that it's RKC in a competitive auction. Then again, in highly competitive auctions ace-asking is somewhat rare versus cuebidding and other defined calls.

Dwayne:

We overcalled. Pard bid 4♠ as a passed hand under pressure. There's only so much room to do so much. There is exactly one bid under 5♣, so we can't simultaneously try in clubs and spades.

This isn't a competitive auction, its a cramped auction. Pard freely bid 4N with LHO passing over 4♠ and our RHO passed again. Not that it matters, but I think the opponents are done.

As far as 4N being some type of 'rolling' call, I would say that if it wasn't a stressed auction, and clubs were the likely strain, then 4N could be some sort of cue bid or LTTC. In this circumstance, its not.

See my other post about what I think 4♠ shows.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 No, I would prefer to have a better fit for club
and a better spade suit, the bal. shape does
not make the bid more attractive either
#2 RKCB, what version do you play?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

I would take 4N as 6-card Blackwood and either answer correctly or shoot 6♣ depending on how confident I am in that interpretation.

I really don't know what 4N "should" mean. 4♠ by a passed hand here must show something very close to what we have, so the need for a GST is not overwhelming.

Another issue is what dbl would have meant. If dbl would be somewhat penalty-oriented, I could have bid 4♠ on a 5♠5♦ hand and we would need 4N for a hand with diamond support. There is even a case for 4N as a natural sign-off.

[Codo]

4 Spade shows this hand, I had opened with KQJxx,xx,Axxx,x and with any 5/5 hand that is good enough to bid it at the fourth level in a non fit auction. If my hand did not qualify for an opening, I had a responsive double. So this shows spades + a club fit.

If 4 NT is not discussed, I would just bid 6 Club. I don´t want to give the wrong answer as various partners will take it for various meaning.

From: SI, general forcing, to RCKB for Spade or RCKB for Club or 6KCB.

[skjaeran]

Partner had: ♠A ♥T ♦QJ643 ♣AJT965

He intended 4NT as unusual, showing 5-6 in the minors. We both agree that this must be wrong, since I've guaranteed ♣ support bidding 4♠ as a passed hand.

I assumed it was RKCB with ♠'s as trump, but wasn't worried holding both black suit kings. I thought it also might be some sort of general slam try, but didn't expect that to be possible undiscussed in a non-regular partnership.

I briefly considered the possibility that it could be intended as partner in fact intended it, but discarded that instantly.

The ♦K was offside, so partner went one down in 6♣.

[whereagles]

4NT for the minors when he could have bid it directly over 1♥ is wierd. Pard clouded the issue and got what he deserved.