[Fluffy]

Vul N-S

S - W - N - E
3♥-X-4♥-4NT
X

4♥ does NOT create a force (if your answer would differ otherwise please tell)
4NT = pcik a minor.

[whereagles]

I play that as option 2. Something like

Axx
KJTxxxx
x
xx

[Poky]

Inviting 5♥ over 5m. Say:
QJx
KQJxxxxx
x
x

[whereagles]

you don't open that 4♥???

[Poky]

Yes, sorry. I misread the bidding.

OK. Lets say then:
QJx(x)
KQJTxxx
x(x)
x

If I pass this, and double 5m, it can be read aa Lightner, so, it is better to show my ambitions in the 1st occasion.

[Codo]

I do not understand why you should play it as c): Want to play 5 Heart.

If I REALLY want to play 5 Heart I can bid it now.
If I (more common) prefer 5 Heart to defending, I can bid it after 5 m comes around to me.
But if I want my pd to warn to compete to 5 Heart, I must send this message now.

[han]

As Justin said. I much prefer double with such a hand than a unilateral 5H.

[jdonn]

Option 2 is closest to how I play it, but it's not just max points. It really shows a useful hand. Maybe xx AQTxxxx Kxx x. I expect it to allow pard to double often when he wouldn't have, and to bid 5♥ occasionally when he wouldn't have.

[FrancesHinden]

Jlall, on Nov 15 2007, 06:08 PM, said:

Good hand to go to 5H with

Me too.

Though it's a very rare auction having opened 3H. This sort of double is more common after say, 4H x P 4NT when you can have quite a lot extra as the 4H opener.

[Halo]

Willing to play 5H. I like to pass on the bad hands.

[awm]

Defensive values, like what jdonn seems to play.

The "I want to bid more" double makes sense in a situation where partner will be in balancing seat and may pass the hand out if I pass it to him. In this case passing is dangerous because partner may sell out when we should be bidding on, but bidding on directly is dangerous because partner may have them beat.

On the example auction though, 4NT is a takeout bid. We will be in balancing seat over LHO's choice of minor. Partner will have the opportunity to double in front of us, and if he doesn't we can feel free to bid on. The danger here is more that I have a hand that's "almost a penalty double" but I don't want to double if partner raised on trash (i.e. I have more defense than one would expect for a 3♥ opening, but don't have the contract beat on my own).

This follows the general guideline that when opponents make a bid showing two suits where the strain they named is not one of the suits, double shows defense (similar to 1♠-2NT-X).

[kenrexford]

The double here is, IMO, a 5♥ call without the baggage of committing to that contract and thereby taking away the ability to simply defend a minor contract, doubled or not, so long as I think that setting 4NT is a fair bet.

[gwnn]

kenrexford, on Nov 15 2007, 10:07 PM, said:

The double here is, IMO, a 5♥ call without the baggage of committing to that contract and thereby taking away the ability to simply defend a minor contract, doubled or not, so long as I think that setting 4NT is a fair bet.

I like this description very much (along with Frances' observation that this should indeed be a very rare bird!).

[skjaeran]

Agree with Justin, Frances and Ken!

[Fluffy]

Wow 10-8-10 votes, best poll I ever made .

[jdonn]

Now 10-9-10. Well done sir!

1 hour later now, 10-10-10! Triple double!

[dake50]

What is the point of fine tuning the info now? Preempt threw a spanner in the works expecting they will get it wrong often, yet, now I want to clarify my hand for them???

I expect this X shows a minor void, = a surprise on defense with HA not KQ/QJ.