[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

P - P - P - 1♦
1♥-X - 2♥-4♦
P - 5♦- all pass

T1. ♥K-2-7-T
T2. ♥Q-3-A-5

---

This is a hand where West was one of my favorite gold stars, EAST is a new player to me. The golden buy lead the ♥K which won.

On defense, ask yourself a couple of question. Like how many ♥ does partner have? If he had six headed by KQ(J)... he likely would have opened a weak two. So he has either 4 (yes people overcall on four card suits) or 5 (which is more likely number). Here EAST, grabbed the second (and last) ♥ trick for his side. The question now becomes how best to continue. In fact, EAST didn't know what to do after winning this trick. The problem was, he has no clear defensive plan. Better would be to allow his partner to win the trick if he was unsure.

What would you do? Think about this before reading on (if it had been me, I would have let my gold star player win, they usually know how to continue... :-)

Ok, so EAST grabs the second trick. How many ♦ does declarer have? Surely not less than 6 and probably 7 (at most 8). Should you return a ♥, ♣, ♠ or ♦?

Your partner can't have much more. If he has no black Ace, they will likely win 7♦, 2♣ 2♠ (with the aid of a ♠ hook. Even if South has only 6♦ your spade spot suggest your partner's ♠T or 9 will be fall setting up a third ♠ in the form of dummy;s eight. So partner will need a black ace to beat this. But if he has a black ACE, he will be out of others honors. Do you return a safe ♦ or try to guess his ace?

The danger hand is if partner has the ♠A. If so, declarer will have ♣AQ, and your ♣JACK is falling on the third round. The danger on a ♦ or ♣ back is NS will win 7♦ and 4♣. But if partner has the ♣ACe, a ♠ back, even away from the King with QJ in dummy can not give up the hand if partner has the ♣ACE. So the right play is low ♠. You will quickly cash two ♠ for down two and a win of 6 imps. Any return other than a ♠ cost you 6.5 imps and the chance to empress a very fine gold star player.... :-)

Sad story, EAST returned a trump. Note if he ducks the ♥Q, the gold star will cash his black ace (this time the ♠ to assure 1 trick set, and EAST can flag high for a second ♠ for the same down two. The hands were...



Ben

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[lenze]

Is there any reason West would not cash the ♠ Ace at trick two???

[the hog]

This blows the defence for 2 down if S has the Kx and partner the QJ of S.

[inquiry]

lenze, on Feb 5 2004, 04:08 PM, said:

Is there any reason West would not cash the ♠ Ace at trick two???

Note if the ♥ signal shows the ACE. Cashing the ♠ACE prevents an accident.

West can be fairly sure EAST has at most 4♥ cause with five partner would have bid more than 2♥, the question is can he be sure about the the ♥ACE?

From the signal, I think so, but.... maybe partner giving count instead. If one can imagine declarer with a hand like...

---

Cashing the ♠ACE sets partner up for ruffing finessee in ♠, but of course, then a perceptive declarer can make teh hand himself. He will play low ♠ if you duck, your ♠A will fall with two ruffs, and if you rise with the ACE, you are back in the same boat.

So a very thougthfull WEST might well have cashed the ♠A before winning the second ♥. But sometimes, WEST isn't thinking his partner is going to overtake.. he is thinking, oh boy, we win two ♥ and then the ♠ACE.

[luke warm]

i might be lost here, but why not overtake ♥K and return a ♥?

[Free]

I also dont understand why he overtook. But if you overtake, I think you should play ♠K, not small, just in case South has a singleton...

[inquiry]

Free, on Feb 6 2004, 10:21 AM, said:

I also dont understand why he overtook. But if you overtake, I think you should play ♠K, not small, just in case South has a singleton...

Blech, puke... er, no....

What is South's singleton ♠ is the ♠A and he has the eight card, instead of the seven card ♦ suit. Or even doubleton ♠A. Your partners ♠T9 falls and dummys ♠QJ8 provide three more tricks. Your partner can never enjoy his ♣A (in this case).

If you win the second ♥ the only correct card is a low ♠. Now, winning the first ♥ and return a ♥ is ok. Ducking both ♥ is ok. And Partner could have prevent your, errrr.... "brilliant" defense of overtaking second ♥ to lead a trump by cashing ♠A before leading a second ♥ as pointed out by lenze.

But I think the principle stands. IF you mastermind the defense (winning the second ♥), you best know what you are doing. To win the second ♥ and lay the ♠K on the table looks totally wrong to me... granted it will work with the acutal hand...but bridge is finding the right play for all reasonable hands. I guess if I was playing against someone who overtook and layed the ♠K on the table, I would be going to myhands to see how "perceptive" they were on other hands.... because this is either totally silly play or based upon knowledge of which ACE partner has.

Ben

[Free]

Hmmm, seems like I forgot something... You need only 1 more trick to set the contract, so indeed a low ♠ is better. But if you'd need 2 tricks, ♠K is better imo. If partner doesn't have the Ace, you wont be able to set the contract anyway.

[JRG]

inquiry, on Feb 5 2004, 07:46 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

P - P - P - 1♦
1♥-X - 2♥-4♦
P - 5♦- all pass

T1. ♥K-2-7-T
T2. ♥Q-3-A-5

---

This is a hand where West was <...snip>

I went crazy trying to figure out the bidding. The orientation of the hands is wrong in the first diagram (I guess the markup should have been RIGHTDUMMY instead of LEFTDUMMY.)

[Trpltrbl]

I don't see the problem, if pd wanted you to win the trick I am sure he would have played a low back. So now that you overtook, you either have to have a very good reason, none here, or the card must have dropped out of your hand. And yes pd must also see the threat, so he could have made it easier and cash the Ace of and play back, since it cannot cost here, QJ are in dummy, so you are not giving up a trick.

Mike

[inquiry]

JRG, on Feb 6 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

inquiry, on Feb 5 2004, 07:46 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

P - P - P - 1♦
1♥-X - 2♥-4♦
P - 5♦- all pass

T1. ♥K-2-7-T
T2. ♥Q-3-A-5

---

This is a hand where West was <...snip>

I went crazy trying to figure out the bidding. The orientation of the hands is wrong in the first diagram (I guess the markup should have been RIGHTDUMMY instead of LEFTDUMMY.)

I am not exactly sure how to make the presentation clearer... Seems North should always be on top. Maybe we should see if we could add compass direction above each hand automatically when one N/S and one E/W hand is shown?

Or we could try this I guess....but tricking the system to show blank hands takes a little patiences.

Scoring: IMP

P-P-P-1♦
1♥-X - 2♥-4♦
P - 5♦- all pass

T1. ♥K-2-7-T
T2. ♥Q-3-A-5

---

[mishovnbg]

...................................................Hi Ben!.................................................
...The gold stars are also people and need help from partner like anybody, may be more, because all wait from them to make only wonders. Taking A♥ is not a bad idea, because of 4 cards fit and simple raise - something that partner don't know, despite he is a star . Marking? If not regular partenership, can be count or encouraging - who knows? Why overtaking, looking on dummy hand through his eyes is right? Because gold (or may be platinum ) star can have no good return, except next ♥.

Actual board:

---

Possible board:

---

... Only ♦ is good continuation. The star may be will find it, but can do mistake too with next ♥. By the way after overtaking, ♠ return is only one which make contract without problems. Else the declarer can play for ♠/♣ squeese or missguess ♠ suit or same never happen to all us ?...
...I am sorry Ben, but in this deal your favorite star did mistake, like any other players do. ♠A is clear and only right continuation, because he knows about 2 ♥ + 1♠ tricks, while his p don't know about it. Nice example of the most popular human mistake - the inertia of thought.
................................................................................Misho

[inquiry]

mishovnbg, on Feb 19 2004, 11:46 AM, said:

Possible board:

---

... Only ♦ is good continuation. The star may be will find it, but can do mistake too with next ♥. By the way after overtaking, ♠ return is only one which make contract without problems. Else the declarer can play for ♠/♣ squeese or missguess ♠ suit or same never happen to all us ?...
...I am sorry Ben, but in this deal your favorite star did mistake, like any other players do. ♠A is clear and only right continuation, because he knows about 2 ♥ + 1♠ tricks, while his p don't know about it. Nice example of the most popular human mistake - the inertia of thought.
................................................................................Misho

Hi Misho,

I did allow in my first reply in this thread that cashing the ♠A before continuing second ♥ avoids mistakes.. this is how you would have played.. which is one reason why I like playing with you... :-)

However your second hand in your quote ♦ shift doesn't work. Win ♦T, ♠Q wins, ♦K, ♠A, ♦A, ♠J pinning your partner's ♠T and the ♣ loser disappears. They win 3♠, 6♦, 2♣ for an overtrick... so i miss your point on that one.

ben

[mishovnbg]

inquiry, on Feb 19 2004, 06:55 PM, said:

Hi Misho,

I did allow in my first reply in this thread that cashing the ♠A before continuing second ♥ avoids mistakes.. this is how you would have played.. which is one reason why I like playing with you... :-)

However your second hand in your quote ♦ shift doesn't work. Win ♦T, ♠Q wins, ♦K, ♠A, ♦A, ♠J pinning your partner's ♠T and the ♣ loser disappears. They win 3♠, 6♦, 2♣ for an overtrick... so i miss your point on that one.

ben

...................................................Hi Ben!........................................................
...Thank you, you are right, my style is to try partner as much as possible, sometimes with cost of my own mistakes. Nice example was when you lead low from J10x in trump amd I played x from Qx for nesessary in my opinion lavinthal for ♣ .
...Another possible deal to clarify my point of view:

---

...Ben, will here declarer "pin" ♠10 again, or may be this time will play low from dummy for ♠K fall?
........................................................................Misho

[helium]

im a little comfused.
there are mnay peapole saying ♥A is a good play to avoid p from playing 3th ♥(to dobble void)
this is expert, and i hope they have singnals,if west show 4 ♥ im sure the star is clever enough to stop hart play and take ace of♠

[inquiry]

No this isn't a double void defense... the problem is winning the second trick and then leading a ♦... that defense can not be right. East could have won first trick and returned a ♥ or could have ducked the second trick, or could have found the right defense....

Misho on the sad hand where I lead low from trump JTx against game and you played low from Qx... I thought a trump lead was necessary, and I thought it very likely you had only one trump, and certainly no more than two. IF I lead the J or T from JTX and you have stiff Q or stiff K, my lead can cost a defensive tricks. This defense of not winning a trump from a combined holding of QJTxx on defense will not win any grand play prize for us...