[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ 84 ♥ AJ93 ♦ AJT984 ♣ 9

[SoTired]

1D. This hand is too strong for a weak 2.

[pclayton]

1♦ playing standard. Pass playing weak NT's.

[kfay]

Clear 1♦ bid to me. You can handle anything you partner throws at you:

1♦-1♥-2♥

1♦-1X-2♦

It's got a lot of playing strength in the reds. Not even especially aggressive in my book.

[jtfanclub]

You just KNOW this isn't going to be unanimous, darn it.

[cherdano]

I am not aggressive, I wouldn't bid 3♥ over 1♦-1♥.

(Just kidding, the hand clearly isn't good enough for that, but I have seen advanced players do it with worse hands )

[whereagles]

1♦ opening here and I'm very aggressive ^^

[Trumpace]

pclayton, on Sep 12 2007, 12:25 PM, said:

1♦ playing standard. Pass playing weak NT's.

Why the difference?

[jillybean]

Seems like we have the forum bridge players and then the rest of them
My "expert" partner made a comment about opening on less than 12 and left soon
after this board.

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     1♦
 Pass  1♠    Pass  2♦
 Pass  4NT   Pass  5♥
 Pass  6NT   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

[Echognome]

Your expert partner is a walrus.

It seems a reasonable continuation would have been for him to bid clubs, you to bid 3N and him to quant back with 4N where you would play.

[TheoKole]

1 Diamond

I have an easy rebid of 2 diamonds after a 1 spade 1 NT or 2 clubs reply.

If p replies 1 heart I can raise I would accept any invitaional bid after a heart fit is found.

We could have an easy game with only 20 hcp. That would mean though that the opps also would have a game in spades, so I won't accept any double of partners against spades by opponents below the 5 level.

I will have to have my antenna way up on this deal.

Cheers, Theo

[jtfanclub]

Echognome, on Sep 12 2007, 01:58 PM, said:

Your expert partner is a walrus.

Nah, the Walrus would have said:

"Partner has shown 12-14 hcp. I have 17. Total is 29-31. Therefore, no slam."

[skjaeran]

This is a rock solid 1♦ opening. Only 10 hcp, but 6-4, two aces and very good interiors. What more could you ask for?

[ArtK78]

I consider myself to be an aggressive bidder. I pass.

It is easier to describe this hand by bidding after passing. Besides, if you open 1♦, your partner never plays you for a real diamond suit until several rounds later in the auction. But if you overcall diamonds, you have them.

[jdonn]

Man, every time I'm sure a vote must surely be unanimous, some aggressive bidder has to come along and pass

[jillybean]

ArtK78, I'll hook you up with my ex pard

[mike777]

I don't know Jilly.

It seems they are saying a "concentrated 20" rule is ok to open one of a minor it seems.

xx..xx...x.....AKQJxxxx
or
Ax...xx...x....KQJxxxxx
or
Ax...Ax...x....Qxxxxxxx

Or your example.


Perhaps this rule may or may not break down for even longer minors with fewer hcp. For example perhaps you need more total hcp than your longest suit.

I guess that would mean you need a "concentrated 20 with more total hcp than your longest suit rule."
Perhaps not a 100% perfect rule, but it seems to be what the forum is saying.

In your example you have 10 cards in your two longest suits, ten hcp, your hcp are in your longest suits and you have more total hcp...10, than your longest suit, 6.

[mike777]

I guess that means if you have:

KQxxx
Qxx
xxx
KQ
or
KQxxx
KQx
xxx
Qx


Pass would be ok in first or second seat since an unconcentrated 20?

[mikeh]

mike777, on Sep 12 2007, 05:03 PM, said:

I don't know Jilly.

It seems they are saying a "concentrated 20" rule is ok to open one of a minor it seems.

xx..xx...x.....AKQJxxxx
or
Ax...xx...x....KQJxxxxx
or
Ax...Ax...x....Qxxxxxxx

Or your example.


Perhaps this rule may or may not break down for even longer minors with fewer hcp. For example perhaps you need more total hcp than your longest suit.

I guess that would mean you need a "concentrated 20 with more total hcp than your longest suit rule."
Perhaps not a 100% perfect rule, but it seems to be what the forum is saying.

In your example you have 10 cards in your two longest suits, ten hcp, your hcp are in your longest suits and you have more total hcp...10, than your longest suit, 6.

I don't think so, Mike.

While there may be some real-life experts who teach the Rule of 20 (indeed, I understand that this rule originated with a better player than me) I don't know any who actually use it themselves. It is a crutch to help B/I players while they are learning more subtle hand evaluation techniques than simply counting points, but my belief is that, with any crutch, once a player's abilities reach a certain point, the crutch is a hindrance rather than a help.

In discussions to which I have been party, concerning aggressive openings, the justifications put forward by experts for light openings may include one or more of the following:

1) ease of rebidding

2) difficulty catching up after a pass

3) too good to preempt

4) losing trick count

5) controls

6) all values in long suits

7) spot cards

8) least common: hcp

Never have I heard a real-life expert explain a bid by reference to the rule of 20, modified or otherwise.

With the example hand here, there are good controls, no rebid issues, too good to preempt (not to mention the difficulty most have finding a 4-4 heart fit after a diamond preempt), difficulty catching up after a pass, good ltc, all values in long suits. While this hand is at the lowest end of the range for me to open 1♦, I would strongly object to any other call.. and my current expert partners would think I had fallen asleep if they saw me pass.. and think I'd had a brain infarction if I opened a weak 2 (and I play a method of showing a 4 card major after opening a weak 2).

This game is too subtle to be encapsulated by simple numerical rules for hand evaluation, and you do (unintentionally, I know) a disservice to the other posters here when you suggest a simplistic explanation for a complex situation. I suspect that more of the bidders thought as I have outlined (at least to some degree) rather than use a modified rule of 20.