[pclayton]

Anyone have a good response structure to mini-multi (2-7; 5 or 6 in suit; no strong alternative)?

I'd also be curious if you have a good response structure to sound weak 2's (Trent). They aren't terribly different than Fantunes, so chime in if you play that.

[pbleighton]

Quote

I'd also be curious if you have a good response structure to sound weak 2's (Trent). They aren't terribly different than Fantunes, so chime in if you play that.

With Fantunes two bids (has been 9-12, recently switched to 10-13), I play:

1. 2NT as a GF relay, forcing opener to make a natural rebid. With a 6-4, we rebid the lower ranking suit (unless it's awful), and responder can check back. For example, 2S-2NT-2D-3S shows 2 spades, and asks opener to choose between 3NT and 4S. It denies a 5 card major.
2. 2x-3x is invitational in an uncontested auction (it's competitive in a contested auction), with 2+ trumps. Opener either passes, bids 3NT or 4M (occasionally 5m) or bids a new suit at the three level, showing 4 cards.
3. A new suit is a non forcing bailout at the two level, and GF at the three level. It shows 5+ in a major or 6+ in a minor.

Peter

[Echognome]

For mini-multi:

Pass Diamonds or gambling with a weak hand (at NV) you won't go for a number. XX = rescue.
2♥ Pass/Correct
2♠ 3+♥. Doesn't guarantee values other than willing to play at 3♥.
2NT Asking bid. Generally INV+ values. Responses are:
--3♣ Bad hand with ♥
--3♦ Bad hand with ♠
--3♥ Good hand with ♠
--3♠ Good hand with ♥
3♣/3♦ Natural F1
3♥ Pass/Correct
3♠ Pass/Correct (to 4♥)
3NT To play
4♣ Transfer me to your major
4♦ Bid your major
4♥/4♠ To Play

To RKCB you bid 2NT then 4♣ with 0/1/1/2/2 responses.

[Gerben42]

I echo Gnome's responses to Mini-Multi.

About Fantunes 2-bids: I'm sticking to 9 - 12 here. This does not seem to hurt the rest of the system (enough).

I play the NEXT bid as asking bid, not 2NT.

2♦ - 2♥ = asking, 2N = Hearts forcing
2♥ - 2♠ = asking, 2N = Spades forcing
2♠ - 2NT = asking, 3♣ = Hearts forcing, 3♥ = Clubs forcing

[lowerline]

Echognome, on Aug 8 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

For mini-multi:

Pass Diamonds or gambling with a weak hand (at NV) you won't go for a number. XX = rescue.
2♥ Pass/Correct
2♠ 3+♥.  Doesn't guarantee values other than willing to play at 3♥.
2NT Asking bid.  Generally INV+ values.  Responses are:
--3♣ Bad hand with ♥
--3♦ Bad hand with ♠
--3♥ Good hand with ♠
--3♠ Good hand with ♥
3♣/3♦ Natural F1
3♥ Pass/Correct
3♠ Pass/Correct (to 4♥)
3NT To play
4♣ Transfer me to your major
4♦ Bid your major
4♥/4♠ To Play

To RKCB you bid 2NT then 4♣ with 0/1/1/2/2 responses.

An alternative scheme after 2♦-2NT (from Rigal):

3♠ = crappy weak 2 in ♠
3♥ = good ♠ suit (3♠ asks shortage)
3♦ = good ♥ suit (3♥ asks shortage)
3♣ = all the rest
--- 3♦ = interest in ♠
--- --- 3♥ = bad ♥'s
--- --- 3NT = good ♥ hand
--- --- cue = good ♠ hand
--- 3♥ = interest in ♥
--- --- 3♠ = good ♠ hand
--- --- 3NT = bad ♥'s
--- --- cue = good ♥ hand

Steven

[FrancesHinden]

Two important things to note about this 2D opening:
i) playing it as very weak (2-7, possibly a 5-card suit) means that the partnership's best fit may not be in opener's suit. I think it's important for responder to suggest alternative strains.
ii) You don't need to use 2NT as the enquiry. You can fit everything in with 3C as the enquiry, which leaves 2NT available for other purposes.

Our responses to 2D are:

2H/2S pass or correct
2NT asks opener to bid 3C
3C asks opener's suit and range, at least INV+
3D shows a game forcing hand with its own 5(+) card major
3H/3S pass or correct
3NT pass
4C please transfer to your major
4D please bid your major
4H/5H/6H pass or correct
4S/6S to play
4NT straight ace-asking
5/6/7 minor to play
5S pass or correct

2D - 2NT - 3C
(pass to play)
3D to play
3H invitational with 6+ hearts; pass or raise
3S invitational with 6+ spades; pass or raise
3NT choice of 4 of partner's major or 3NT
4C strong single-suiter in clubs
4D strong single-suiter in diamonds
4H to play in 4H

2D - 3C -
3D spades, then 3H asks range (3S min, passable; 3NT max)
3H min with hearts
3S max with hearts

2D - 3D -
opener bids his major; then responder bids 3NT non-forcing, implying 5 cards in the other major; 3S over 3H to show spades; 4 minor cue for the bid major (big fit)

some other continuations:
2D - 2S - 2NT = maximum with hearts; 3H = minimum with hearts (you could use 3C/3D for other hands with hearts)
2D - 2H - 2S - 3H = to play in 3H
2D - 2S - (something) - 3S = to play in 3S

[Free]

This is what I like:
2M and 3M = pass or correct
2NT = inv+ relay
3m = natural, F1 (not sure if this is the most useful treatment)
4♣ = transfer your suit
4♦ = bid your suit
4M = to play

After 2♦ - 2NT:
3♣ = any minimum (3/4♦ asks to bid your suit, 4♣ asks to transfer the suit, 3M are used for slamtries)
3♦ = ♥, max (accepting transfer is a relay, asking a shortness)
3♥ = ♠, max (accepting transfer is a relay, asking a shortness)
3♠ = solid Major

[skjaeran]

NV I play garbage Multi, 0-7, normally a 5-bagger (the definition is a hand too weak to invite vs a 15-17NT).
Our responses:
2♥=p/c
2♠=natural, constructive, NF
2NT=asking for "better" minor (to stop or GF/slam try in a suit)
3♣=ask for transfer to the major =>3r-3M=inv.
3♦=invite with ♥'s
3♥=p/c, pre
3♠=natural invite
3NT=to play
4♣=transfer to your major
4♦=bid your major
4M=To play, don't care about YOUR major

[Echognome]

Frances - The one thing I'm wondering about in your write-up is having 4♦ as bid your major and 4♥ as P/C. They are effectively the same bid other than the strange siding of the bid with 4♥. Furthermore, you have 4♣ if you want to right-side. So why use two bids (and effectively you have 3 bids when you include 4♣) for this purpose? If you have a long string of hearts and just want to play in 4♥, it seems silly not to be able to bid 4♥.

[FrancesHinden]

Echognome, on Aug 9 2007, 06:35 PM, said:

Frances - The one thing I'm wondering about in your write-up is having 4♦ as bid your major and 4♥ as P/C. They are effectively the same bid other than the strange siding of the bid with 4♥. Furthermore, you have 4♣ if you want to right-side. So why use two bids (and effectively you have 3 bids when you include 4♣) for this purpose? If you have a long string of hearts and just want to play in 4♥, it seems silly not to be able to bid 4♥.

Indeed, I agree the 4D bid is redundant.

We like to keep 4H as poc because of the immediate pre-emptive value; it is a more common hand type than the long-string-of-hearts hand so I would like to keep that as the fastest way to bid 4M.

You can always insist on 4H via 2NT - 3C - 4H (which I may have missed out above).

4D didn't have any meaning at all until quite recently. Perhaps it should be a pre-empt in diamonds....

[cherdano]

If you want to play in your own heart suit, you could just bid 4♣

[Echognome]

cherdano, on Aug 9 2007, 10:13 AM, said:

If you want to play in your own heart suit, you could just bid 4♣

Until it goes:

2♦ - (P) - 4♣ - (Dbl)
P - (4♦) - ?

Now your 4♥ bid is going to be interpreted as P/C. D'oh!

[pclayton]

After consideration, I'm not sure we want to model the sound weak 2's after Fantunes, since they are frequently 5, and getting the 2nd suit in seems really important. With 6 of the major, showing the 2nd suit seems less important to showing other aspects.