[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

P (1♠) X (3♠)
?

---

Spoiler

Obvious 4♥ here?

[pbleighton]

I would bid 4H. Partner will either have 4 hearts, or a very strong hand, or we will have a discussion.

Peter

[skjaeran]

4♥ is clear. I've got a nice hand, with a good 4-card trump holding, a nice side suit and 6 losers.

[P_Marlowe]

4H, game try.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

4♥, though I suspect this won't end hostilities ^^

[jtfanclub]

4♥ this time, 5♦ next time. There will be a next time.

Boy, is 4♠ tempting. Wow. Geez. I wouldn't do it, but maybe I should. What are the odds that partner's going to place a passed hand with this kind of sweetness in this auction?

Edit: I can't stop thinking about it. Partner can have something like:

Axx
Axxx
Axx
AKx

and he'll never consider slam after 4♥, at least I wouldn't. OK, sure, partner could have hearts, in which case we'll end up in 5 hearts either way (10+ card fit for the bad guys), but if the other possibility is that he has a hand too strong for a 1NT overcall...

I'm sure I'm the only person tempted.

[Echognome]

jtfanclub, on Jul 6 2007, 07:50 AM, said:

4♥ this time, 5♦ next time. There will be a next time.

Boy, is 4♠ tempting. Wow. Geez. I wouldn't do it, but maybe I should. What are the odds that partner's going to place a passed hand with this kind of sweetness in this auction?

Edit: I can't stop thinking about it. Partner can have something like:

Axx
Axxx
Axx
AKx

and he'll never consider slam after 4♥, at least I wouldn't. OK, sure, partner could have hearts, in which case we'll end up in 5 hearts either way (10+ card fit for the bad guys), but if the other possibility is that he has a hand too strong for a 1NT overcall...

I'm sure I'm the only person tempted.

Sorry, I have to laugh. Partners don't generally turn up with prime 19 counts made up solely of controls. I wouldn't worry about this hand... ever.

[jtfanclub]

Echognome, on Jul 6 2007, 12:56 PM, said:

Sorry, I have to laugh. Partners don't generally turn up with prime 19 counts made up solely of controls. I wouldn't worry about this hand... ever.

This is assuming that 3♠ shows 0+ hcp. If he's showing a limit raise, then I have nothing to worry about.

98% of the time, it doesn't matter if you 'transfer to 4♠' or bid it yourself. If your partner has an ordinary double, they will certainly 'accept the transfer' and you'll bid 5♦. Your partner saw your green card, and isn't going to get slam happy.

The other 2% of the time, partner's got a hand too strong to overcall or bid 1NT with. Which is really darn strong. I just listed the aces and kings because they're the only ones I cared about. Throw in 4 jacks, and he's still not going to go for slam, because 4♥ could be six hearts and one card away from a Yarborough. Give him

QJ
AJxx
AJx
AKQJ

and it still doesn't look like a slam try to me after a 4♥ bid.

At any rate, passing is right out.

[bid_em_up]

Echognome, on Jul 6 2007, 12:56 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Jul 6 2007, 07:50 AM, said:

4♥ this time, 5♦ next time.  There will be a next time.

Boy, is 4♠ tempting.  Wow.  Geez.  I wouldn't do it, but maybe I should.  What are the odds that partner's going to place a passed hand with this kind of sweetness in this auction?

Edit:  I can't stop thinking about it.  Partner can have something like:

Axx
Axxx
Axx
AKx

and he'll never consider slam after 4♥, at least I wouldn't.  OK, sure, partner could have hearts, in which case we'll end up in 5 hearts either way (10+ card fit for the bad guys), but if the other possibility is that he has a hand too strong for a 1NT overcall...

I'm sure I'm the only person tempted.

Sorry, I have to laugh. Partners don't generally turn up with prime 19 counts made up solely of controls. I wouldn't worry about this hand... ever.

I would. And I don't consider it a laughing matter either. It is certainly at least worth considering bidding more than a mere 4♥. Given that partner is likely to hold three spades, unless it is your partnership tendency to double on 12-13 count
3-4-3-3 hands, partner is highly likely to hold extra values. And he doesn't have to hold a 19 count, per se, a nice 15 count would suffice:

xxx AJxx Axx AQx

and 6H will have some play (iff both red suits break favorably).

Improve this hand any, and the odds simply get better. Is this hand control rich? Sure. But partner has to have his values somewhere (he IS missing 10 hcp in the red suits, after all) and I think he is quite likely to have extra values.

My first thought when I saw the hand was "Do I want to play 4H or 6D, or maybe 6H?" I would prefer 6D to 6H to prevent the early force when playing in hearts, but I suspect we may need the diamond suit for pitches in a heart contract.

Mind you, I am not saying you should bid anymore than 4H, but it certainly is worth considering, and most definitely not a laughable thought.

jmoo.

[Echognome]

jtfanclub, on Jul 6 2007, 10:24 AM, said:

Echognome, on Jul 6 2007, 12:56 PM, said:

Sorry, I have to laugh.  Partners don't generally turn up with prime 19 counts made up solely of controls.  I wouldn't worry about this hand... ever.

This is assuming that 3♠ shows 0+ hcp. If he's showing a limit raise, then I have nothing to worry about.

98% of the time, it doesn't matter if you 'transfer to 4♠' or bid it yourself. If your partner has an ordinary double, they will certainly 'accept the transfer' and you'll bid 5♦. Your partner saw your green card, and isn't going to get slam happy.

The other 2% of the time, partner's got a hand too strong to overcall or bid 1NT with. Which is really darn strong. I just listed the aces and kings because they're the only ones I cared about. Throw in 4 jacks, and he's still not going to go for slam, because 4♥ could be six hearts and one card away from a Yarborough. Give him

QJ
AJxx
AJx
AKQJ

and it still doesn't look like a slam try to me after a 4♥ bid.

At any rate, passing is right out.

Sorry, I'm sure I came across as more critical than I meant to. I still don't worry about the 2nd hand you mention either. If slam is possible, partner will bid again *most* of the time. And by *most* I mean enough of the time that I'm not going to worry about it.

[jtfanclub]

Echognome, on Jul 6 2007, 01:31 PM, said:

Sorry, I'm sure I came across as more critical than I meant to. I still don't worry about the 2nd hand you mention either. If slam is possible, partner will bid again *most* of the time. And by *most* I mean enough of the time that I'm not going to worry about it.

Yeah, I'm gonna bid 4♥ too. I'd just have to think about it.

Lemme put it this way, if somebody put a gun to my head and told me my only choices were 4♠ or pass, I'd bid 4♠. This hand is closer to a passed-hand slam try than passing 3♠

[the hog]

4H. Will probably have to bid again.

[TimG]

pbleighton, on Jul 6 2007, 07:22 AM, said:

Partner will either have 4 hearts, or a very strong hand, or we will have a discussion.

You wouldn't double with something like xx AJx Jxxx AQJx?

[pclayton]

4♥ is sort of obvious, but I don't mind a responsive double with this collection. I hate taking the tap in the long hand.

[jillybean]

what is 'taking the tap' ?

[Robert]

Hi jillybeans2

'Being tapped' or being 'tapped out' is slang for being forced to trump something.
You can either run out of trumps or a defender may have more trumps than you because you were 'tapped out.'

Also terms used here might be: ruff, shortened or forced. They all mean much the same, you were forced to trump something.

Defenders trying to gain control of the trump suit are sometimes playing a 'forcing game'(trying to gain control of the trump suit by 'forcing you' to trump something.

Regards,
Robert

[jtfanclub]

TimG, on Jul 6 2007, 10:16 PM, said:

pbleighton, on Jul 6 2007, 07:22 AM, said:

Partner will either have 4 hearts, or a very strong hand, or we will have a discussion.

You wouldn't double with something like xx AJx Jxxx AQJx?

With your example, they have a 10 card spade fit with 150 honors. I seriously doubt you'll get to play it at 4♥. One of the reasons I'm not going to bid 4♠ is that I expect that I'll get a 5♦ bid in next.

But yeah, I'd X with that.

[kenrexford]

A simple hand for partner might be xx-Axxx-Axx-Axxx. The counter to "Why must he be primed out?" is that I have the secondaries and tertiaries covered here.

Opposite that hand, I win the club at trick two, pull trumps, run the diamonds, ruff something, and claim 11 tricks. If he has slightly more, like the club Queen, I like his hand for slam purposes, and he will also.

I'm fairly certain that the five-level is safe.

So, I'm with 4♠ also.

[pbleighton]

Quote

You wouldn't double with something like xx AJx Jxxx AQJx?

I'd hate to pass, but I would (I wouldn't be surprised or offended if a pickup partner (very rare these days) doubled with this hand, I know many players would). I am tighter in my takeout doubles than most people. I also prefer 4 card 1 level overcalls, which takes the pressure off the double a lot of the time, but not here.

Add a queen and I would bid.

Peter