[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     1♥    Pass
 1♠    1NT   2♠    3♦
 Pass  Pass  Pass  



1/. 1NT ?

2/. shoudl I bid 3NT after 3 diamonds and if not why not?

[helene_t]

1NT is fine. I prefer not to play 1NT as natural here, but given that 1NT is natural this is the hand for it. You have stoppers and a source of tricks.

No, you must pass 3♦ unless it's forcing which it probably isn't. I don't think you have more than you already showed with 1N. Maybe South should have bid 3N.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 1NT is fine
#2 depends on the meaning of 3D, usually 2NT would
be Lebensohl, weak / competitive hands would go
through 2NT, making a direct 3D forcing.
Absent this agreement, South should bid X or
3NT instead, X being card showing / negative.

Have a clear understanding, how to bid, after your
side opens 1NT and they interfere, and use the same
agreements now.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Robert]

Hi everyone

I prefer to play 1NT as sandwich with 5-5(+) in the unbid suits. If I agreed to play it as natural, this hand would be too weak to bid 1NT in my methods.

My methods continue the same as 'if opened' so that 3D bid would be game forcing playing with me.

If North overcalled 1NT 'natural' why didn't South simply bid 3NT? Nine HCPs and a decent five card suit opposite a freely bid 1NT overcall when both of the other pair have bid should show a decent 1NT bid.

If you have 'no prior agreement' about the 3D bid, you "should not" bid over it. Without a Lebensohl type agreement in place, a suit bid is to play and a cuebid should show game forcing type values.

The reason that you should not bid 3NT over the 3D bid is that partner could have bid 3NT all by himself looking at nine HCPs after you bid 1NT. He did not, so I would play him for a weak hand and 6(+) diamonds.

Regards,
Robert

[pbleighton]

Quote

I prefer to play 1NT as sandwich with 5-5(+) in the unbid suits.

I prefer it as 4-4

Peter

[SoTired]

I prefer to play the sandwich 1NT as natural 15-18. I have sooooo many bids to show the other two suits, why should I need another.

And now with light openers and light responders, you don't ever want to take away the strong NT overcall.

3D is forcing, North should bid 4D. How can North ignore 5-card support? 3D is a TERRRIBLE bid. If North bids 3N, then North is treating 3D like a transfer to 3N. That is why South should bid 3N, not 3D. Never show your minor unless you are prepared for partner to raise. Since South does not want to hear 4D, South should just bid 3N.

[FrancesHinden]

South has a 3NT bid over 2S.

Double of 2S isn't responsive, it's penalties.

[han]

South has an easy 3NT bid.

I play systems on over a natural 1NT overcall so 3D would be forcing. I wouldn't risk the call unless I knew how partner would interpret it.

[jillybean]

I'd be a little uneasy bidding nt behind a ♥ opening with Kx. However, everyone has said nt is fine so I wont argue!

[han]

Well, what else are you going to do? I'd be glad that we agreed to play it this way and at least the lead is coming to us, not through us.

[mikeh]

Playing standard methods (including the version that has the 1N as natural, which is the way I play it), I agree with Frances: S should bid 3N.

Bear in mind that the 1N bidder will usually not be a bad 15... with bad 15's, pass or (if the shape warrants) double. So advancer doesn't need to be worried about a really bad minimum over there... I'd bid game opposite a 15-17 1N with the S hand, but some might choose to invite. However, the invitation is because of fear of a poor hand, and the sandwich 1N won't be based on that hand. Plus, the range is greater.. most play 1N sandwich as good 15 to 18.

[jillybean]

Hannie, on Jul 9 2007, 08:12 AM, said:

Well, what else are you going to do? I'd be glad that we agreed to play it this way and at least the lead is coming to us, not through us.

Well obviously the only other bid you have is ♦'s but bidding ♦'s you'd never get to show this hand. Its not a ♥ lead I'm worried about its a ♠ lead and ♥ return.

[FrancesHinden]

Of course, 3D is a very good spot and 3NT is horrible.
So your auction was great in some respects.

[bid_em_up]

comments on bidding please

It was awful.
It was brilliant.
It was horrendous.
Goren could've bid that hand equally as well, even from the grave.
My blind grandma bids better than that.
Could you please pick that hand up and put down the one you held during the auction?





(please take it as the joke it is intended to be...it was just the first thing that went through my mind upon seeing the thread title, without even seeing the actual "problem", so has no real bearing on what may have actually occured at the table)

[Quantumcat]

If 1NT is this "sandwich" thing, what is a double then? Does it replace the natural 1NT? Why swap them around

[helene_t]

Quantumcat, on Jul 10 2007, 01:23 PM, said:

If 1NT is this "sandwich" thing, what is a double then? Does it replace the natural 1NT? Why swap them around

Double emphasises the higher-ranking unbid suit, 1NT the lower-ranking one. Also, double tends to be stronger and more defense-oriented. You can double with only 4-4 but you need a decent hand, then.

[goobers]

Basically the difference between double and 1NT is whatever you agree it to be

[P_Marlowe]

Quantumcat, on Jul 10 2007, 06:23 AM, said:

If 1NT is this "sandwich" thing, what is a double then? Does it replace the natural 1NT? Why swap them around 

Hi,

usually the "sandwich" thing shows a more
distributional 2-suiter, than the double, and
the double shows more defence.
Another option would be, that dbl shows
longer / better clubs (the lower suit for the cheaper
bid) and NT shows longer / better diamonds
(the higher suit for the higher bid).

What ever you agree on, the definition of the
hands, which go through the dbl becomes more
precise.

If you play the "sandwich" thing, you have
no bid for the natural 1 NT hands, the theory
being, that you dont want to play 1NT anyway
after both oppoenents spoke (hence partner
is broke).

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pbleighton]

Quote

If 1NT is this "sandwich" thing, what is a double then? Does it replace the natural 1NT? Why swap them around

As another poster said, it's whatever you agree. I play both as 4-4 in the unbid suits, with 1NT being 0-12 hcp, and double being 13+ if 4-4, possibly a little less if 5-4 or 5-5.

Peter