[jocdelevat]

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Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  1♣    1♠    2♦
 2♠    3♣    Pass  ?

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Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 1♦    1NT   Pass  2♦
 Pass  2♥    Pass  ?

[foo]

pass 3♣ with the 1st. Your ♥Q may very well be useless.

raise 2♥ to 3♥ with the 2nd.
You have 7 HCP outside of ♥'s + 3 Dummy Points if We have an 8+ card fit= 10 Dummy Points.
The bidding favors Us having a ♥ fit (less ♦'s in Opener's hand means more room for ♥'s.)

[jtfanclub]

foo, on Jun 27 2007, 09:46 PM, said:

raise 2♥ to 3♥ with the 2nd.
You have 7 HCP outside of ♥'s + 3 Dummy Points if We have an 8+ card fit= 10 Dummy Points.
The bidding favors Us having a ♥ fit (less ♦'s in Opener's hand means more room for ♥'s.)

blech.

First off, I don't believe for a moment that we're favored to have a heart fit. Partner could easily have 4 or even 5 diamonds. I have one, even if opener has 5 that leaves 7 between partner and RHO. If RHO had 4+ diamonds, he might have bid them.

Second of all, if I say 3♥, partner will take me for 6. I don't see why I'd lie to him.

I think my choices are pass and 2NT. Since the points are under partner, I'll try 2NT.

Not an expert opinion, since I'm not an expert. Sorry.

[kenrexford]

On the first, I'd bid 3♦, which may well be an overbid. But, my failure to open 2♦ (or 1♦ for that matter) makes it implausible that I have six diamonds and a good hand. This should be a COV bid, club support, and insufficient spade values to bid 3♠. I'm not discounting the value of the heart Queen at all. Also, there is the bonus of a small inference that my clubs suck, from my failure to bid 3♦ earlier; at least I can claim that later at the bar.

On the second, I'd bid 2♠. Admittedly, this would be conventional as I play it, simply showing an unbalanced game invite with five hearts; partner's 2NT would ask for the suit. If I was not playing that. I'd still bid 2♠. If my tactical choice did not pay off, maybe 2♠ will be a fine final contract (or a funny 3-3 contract that I somehow seem to make a lot). If partner bids 3♠, I'll correct to 3NT. If partner bids 4♠, that should be the right contract.

[EDIT -- DAMN! CAUGHT AGAIN BY B/I. FORGET ALL THAT!!!]

[jdonn]

First hand I like 4♣. We could make game, but unless partner has solid clubs and a spade stopper it is probably not 3NT, and I find that fairly unlikely. Plus if I bid 3♠ to look for that and partner couldn't bid 3NT, I think we would be guessing after that.

Second hand, 2NT. Sometimes the answer is right in front of your nose. Foo, if partner has a heart fit then, shocker, he can go back to hearts! It's true we have a singleton diamonds but it's the jack which combines well with certain diamond holdings of partner's, like ATx, KTx, KQx(x), etc.

[foo]

Folks, Hand 2 is not worth taking another bid if you are planning on playing in NT.
That would require 9+ HCP, and you simply do not have them.

OTOH, Hand 2 might easily make 3-4♥'s even in a 52 "Kaplan Fit"; and Vacant Spaces says that the odds of an 8+ card ♥ fit are greater here than if pd had Opened 1N.

So pass 2♥ or make a forward going move in ♥'s. In NT you are All Done.

[kenrexford]

foo, on Jun 27 2007, 11:33 PM, said:

Folks, Hand 2 is not worth taking another bid if you are planning on playing in NT.
That would require 9+ HCP, and you simply do not have them.

OTOH, Hand 2 might easily make 3-4♥'s even in a 52 "Kaplan Fit"; and Vacant Spaces says that the odds of an 8+ card ♥ fit are greater here than if pd had Opened 1N.

So pass 2♥ or make a forward going move in ♥'s. In NT you are All Done.

Since when does an invite of a 1NT overcall require 9+?

First of all, most folks play that a 1NT overcall is stronger by a smidge than a 1NT opening, 15-18 being a common range. Not my range, but a common one.

Further, isolation of strength behind strength elevates trick-taking capacity in situations like this.

As a simple "proof," give partner a typical hand that he might have, something like:

♠AQxx ♥Ax ♦A10x ♣Qxxx

Whereas a free auction makes this a lousy game, needing cooperation in diamonds, clubs, and spades, this looks like a fairly good game contextually. Of the 16 missing points, Declarer's RHO will have at least 2/3 of the points, and perhaps more. "All the stuff you need" will be there more often.

[jdonn]

foo, on Jun 27 2007, 11:33 PM, said:

Folks, Hand 2 is not worth taking another bid if you are planning on playing in NT.
That would require 9+ HCP, and you simply do not have them.

OTOH, Hand 2 might easily make 3-4♥'s even in a 52 "Kaplan Fit"; and Vacant Spaces says that the odds of an 8+ card ♥ fit are greater here than if pd had Opened 1N.

So pass 2♥ or make a forward going move in ♥'s.  In NT you are All Done.

lol. This hand is closer to a 3nt bid opposite a 1NT overcall than it is to being less than an invite. The overcall has a higher range than the opening, and is better positioned. Please invite with your 9 counts, you can't be too careful. (that was sarcasm, just to be clear)

Out of curiosity, do you open 4♥ on five card suits because more often than not you have a heart fit, or do you open 1♥ and actually let the member of the partnership who knows if there is a fit decide whether there is one or not?

[foo]

You can't have it both ways People.

=if= Your 1N Overcalls are 16-18, =then= you can invite in NT with 8 HCP + a 5card suit.

=if= Your 1N Overcalls are usually 15-17 and include soft or flawed 18's (the more usual modern practice) =then= you need exceptional 8's or 9+ HCP to invite in NT.

♠ 432 ♥ QJ864 ♦ J ♣ AT86
Has =7= working HCP. The only way this hand can be considered Invitational is in the presence of a trump suit.
If this hand is put down as Dummy in NT, it is very possible that Neither the ♦J nor at least 1 of the ♥ honors will take any tricks (the lead goes through this hand and into the strong defending hand.).

[helene_t]

1: 3♠, I think 3♣ should be forcing although it might not be so in "standard".

2: What strange methods am I playing? Did 2♦ show hearts? I don't like that. Anyway, 2N now, or maybe pass, depending on the exact range for 1NT.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 3S, asking for a spade stopper, the 3 card support
makes it more or less madatory that I make another
try towards game, over 4C it is a toss up between
pass and 5C, ... it would not be the first time I go -1

#2 Pass, partner did not super accept, so chances are great,
that you dont have game

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: #1 I play 3C as NF, and I agree with Jdonn, over 4C from
partner you are guessing, so make up your mind now,
what you bid

[SoTired]

1: 4C, not 3S. Move one of the diam honors to clubs and 3S looks more attractive, but not with 3 small clubs.

2: 2N. 8 with 5-card suit = invite. ♦J IS WORKING in this auction. Every card is working and I have a 2nd suit with 2 honors that might come in.

[P_Marlowe]

SoTired, on Jun 28 2007, 06:06 AM, said:

<snip>
2: 2N. 8 with 5-card suit = invite. ♦J IS WORKING in this auction. Every card is working and I have a 2nd suit with 2 honors that might come in.

The jack of diamonds may be a working card,
or not, but hopefully we agree, that there are
a lots of hands out there with 8HCP outs which
in comparison are better.

It most likely boils down, how weak can 1NT be,
for me it is the same as a 1NT opener, some play
it stronger. Facing a 1NT opener, I may invite
and or not.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Apollo81]

1. pass
2. 2NT

re #2: I think you can GF with the right 8 counts in this auction, but this hand isn't one of them

[Walddk]

helene_t, on Jun 28 2007, 12:20 PM, said:

2: What strange methods am I playing? Did 2♦ show hearts? I don't like that.

What's so strange about that? Isn't it normal that system is on after a 1NT overcall and no interference by RHO?

Roland

[whereagles]

1. 3♠
2. 2NT

[jocdelevat]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 1♣    1♠    2♦    2♠
 3♣    Pass  Pass  Pass
 

Here most tables find 3nt. My pard ask me about 3nt bid. I think he should have bid it. We lost 6imps because I pass 3c.


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Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     Pass  Pass  1♦
 1NT   Pass  2♦!   Pass
 2♥    Pass  Pass  Pass
 


here we won 1.7 imps even I pass 2h and my pard made 4h.

Thank you all

[jtfanclub]

Quote

Here most tables find 3nt. My pard ask me about 3nt bid. I think he should have bid it. We lost 6imps because I pass 3c.

Everything is sitting right, the people who opened 1NT with your partner's hand (or didn't get an overcall) got lucky this time. Congratulations to them. Next time the kings will be where they belong and 3NT goes down 1.

[foo]

W should bid 3N (or 4♣ looking to play 5m) on Hand 1. We have 27 HCP between Us and Game rates to make

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.