[P_Marlowe]

jocdelevat, on Jun 28 2007, 10:04 AM, said:

Dealer: East Vul: EW Scoring: IMP

♠ KQT95 ♥ 9764 ♦ 9742 ♣   ♠ A8 ♥ AJ2 ♦ 85 ♣ AQJ972 ♠ 742 ♥ QT ♦ AKQT3 ♣ 865 ♠ J63 ♥ K853 ♦ J6 ♣ KT43

West  North East  South

 -     -     Pass  Pass
 1♣    1♠    2♦    2♠
 3♣    Pass  Pass  Pass
 

Here most tables find 3nt. My pard ask me about 3nt bid. I think he should have bid it. We lost 6imps because I pass 3c.

<snip>

Hi,

the main problem is, that your partnership
had no agreement about the strength of 3C.

Partner holding 16HCP opposite a forcing 2D
response believed (?!) 3C forcing, if he believed
it nonforcing, than he should look for a different
call, you did believe that it was non forcing and
choose pass.

Take the sequence and discuss it, forget the result,
just take the lesson.

This is nothing to decide for the panel, the panel
can only show you the options, which option your
partnership chooses is more or less irrelevant.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jtfanclub]

P_Marlowe, on Jun 28 2007, 11:05 AM, said:

Partner holding 16HCP opposite a forcing 2D
response believed (?!) 3C forcing, if he believed
it nonforcing, than he should look for a different
call, you did believe that it was non forcing and
choose pass.

It is possible you're right.

It is also possible that your partner felt stuck. He may have felt No Trump didn't look good: you have implied that you have no spade stopper, and the overcaller (assuming it shows 8+ hcp) is an odds on favorite to have the king of clubs.

Even if 3 clubs is nonforcing, I would be tempted to use it with the West hand, because if East is minimum game is hardly a sure thing.

[foo]

jtfanclub, on Jun 28 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

Even if 3♣ is nonforcing, I would be tempted to use it with the West hand, because if East is minimum game is hardly a sure thing.

You are looking at 16 HCP including 3 A's and a nice 6 card suit.
♠ A8 ♥ AJ2 ♦ 85 ♣ AQJ972
is a hand we teach novices to evaluate at 18 Playing Points.
Responder has shown 10+ HCP and a 5+ card suit.

...and you have doubts We belong in game?

3♣ nf is an underbid.

[vuroth]

Does 2♦ still show 10 HCP in competition? For some reason, I had it in my head that it was a free bid, and only showed 8+....

[jtfanclub]

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 11:41 AM, said:

...and you have doubts We belong in game?

Um, yeah. Isn't that what I just said?

Did they also teach you that it's a lot tougher to make 11 tricks than 10 or 9?

3NT is very, very marginal here. Not finding it isn't a reason to be upset. It's a reason to congratulate North on his sucessful 5 hcp overcall. If North had

KQT95
97
42
KT43

which actually looks more like a 1 spade overcall, would you be talking about how to bid it to avoid game?

Quote

Responder has shown 10+ HCP and a 5+ card suit.

Responder is a passed hand, which makes it nonforcing. If she wants to bid 2♦ with 8 or 9 I certainly don't have a problem with it.

Quote

3♣ nf is an underbid.

Sure it is. But the auction is indicating dangers, and if you choose to be cautious, so be it. I'm not saying that I would or wouldn't bid 3♣ myself, but I don't think it's unreasonable.

[FrancesHinden]

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

Your analysis is only "correct" because partner does not have a 1NT overcall. The lack of any sort of diamond stop is a fairly notable feature.

(North's pass of the 1NT overcall is also a little strange)

[P_Marlowe]

jtfanclub, on Jun 28 2007, 11:26 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jun 28 2007, 11:05 AM, said:

Partner holding 16HCP opposite a forcing 2D
response believed (?!) 3C forcing, if he believed
it nonforcing, than he should look for a different
call, you did believe that it was non forcing and
choose pass.

It is possible you're right.

It is also possible that your partner felt stuck. He may have felt No Trump didn't look good: you have implied that you have no spade stopper, and the overcaller (assuming it shows 8+ hcp) is an odds on favorite to have the king of clubs.

Even if 3 clubs is nonforcing, I would be tempted to use it with the West hand, because if East is minimum game is hardly a sure thing.

That is fine. But if you are making the nf 3C
bid, than you are responsible, if game
was on and the partnership missed it.
Sometimes one has to make a decision,
and the decision may turn out wrong.

That is all, no need to discuss, but the
partnership should have a understanding
about the forcing nature of a 3C bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[foo]

vuroth, on Jun 28 2007, 11:55 AM, said:

Does 2♦ still show 10 HCP in competition? For some reason, I had it in my head that it was a free bid, and only showed 8+....

A 2/1 in a new suit by Responder in a Contested Auction promises 10+ HCP and a suit 5+ cards long.
If Advancer passes it is 100% Forcing.

Whether Opener's rebid of their orginal suit shows extra or not when Advancer competes rather than passing is a bit more controversial.

[foo]

FrancesHinden, on Jun 28 2007, 12:29 PM, said:

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

Your analysis is only "correct" because partner does not have a 1NT overcall. The lack of any sort of diamond stop is a fairly notable feature.

(North's pass of the 1NT overcall is also a little strange)

Yes, we both know a better auction would've been along the lines of

(1♦)-1♠-(3♦!)-??

[Echognome]

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 02:19 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Jun 28 2007, 12:29 PM, said:

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

Your analysis is only "correct" because partner does not have a 1NT overcall. The lack of any sort of diamond stop is a fairly notable feature.

(North's pass of the 1NT overcall is also a little strange)

Yes, we both know a better auction would've been along the lines of

(1♦)-1♠-(3♦!)-??

Why? You don't like your chances in 4 spades?

[jdonn]

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 10:47 AM, said:

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

Lol well analyzed sir. Nice 1NT bid!

[foo]

jdonn, on Jun 29 2007, 12:40 AM, said:

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 10:47 AM, said:

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

Lol well analyzed sir. Nice 1NT bid!

Actually, it's a horrible 1N Overcall. I completely agree with Frances on that point.

[foo]

Echognome, on Jun 28 2007, 06:31 PM, said:

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 02:19 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Jun 28 2007, 12:29 PM, said:

foo, on Jun 28 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

Nice to see my analysis is correct on Hand 2.
4♥ is -1 on a ♦ lead and makes on any other lead.
You can only take 7 tricks in NT.

Your analysis is only "correct" because partner does not have a 1NT overcall. The lack of any sort of diamond stop is a fairly notable feature.

(North's pass of the 1NT overcall is also a little strange)

Yes, we both know a better auction would've been along the lines of

(1♦)-1♠-(3♦!)-??

Why? You don't like your chances in 4 spades?

Well, the Moysian that E doesn't know about can certainly lead to some interesting assumptions and bidding...

My best guess is that E would make the forcing call of 3♥ intending this as a way to show an Invitational hand with 3 card support and a side suit. Although a simple raise to 3♠ is also reasonable.

Bottom line is that DD there are only 9 tricks in ♠'s for EW.
4♠ is -1 on the ?obvious? trump lead.
4♠ makes on any other lead.; but the line of play needed to make is fairly precise.

Given that, I think 4♠ is a superior contract to 4♥ by just a smidge.

[helene_t]

1) OK, p thought 3♣ was forcing and you thought it was not. Good opportunity to make an agreement. I think it should be forcing. A weak hand can just pass, wainting for the reopening double, or use G/B2NT if you play that. May depend on the range of 2♦, though. If it can be 8 HCP or (even less), opener should have an invitational way of showing long clubs as well.

2) This is not a 1NT overcall. 1♠ is normal. If it's inconceivable to overcall on a four-bagger, he must pass.