CrissCross for Beginners inv+ minor raise
#1
Posted 2007-June-19, 23:01
CrissCross appears to be straight forward:
1♣:2♦ game force ♣'s
1♦:3♣ game force ♦'s
1♣:2♣ constructive ♣'s
1♦:2♦ constructive ♦'s
Is 1♦:2♣ natural ?
Can anyone add anything to this. I can only find one site if I google it and I can't locate it on BridgeGuys
tyia
jb
(still learning)
#2
Posted 2007-June-19, 23:05
#3
Posted 2007-June-19, 23:17
What is the difference between this and Inverted minors?
(still learning)
#4
Posted 2007-June-19, 23:19
When I played this with a partner, the criss-cross never really came up and when it did we were not that better off than those pairs who used "standard" inverted raises of minors. If you have a good structure in place after your inverted minor raises, you can probably dispense with criss cross and have the benefit of 1♦-3♣ as inv. clubs.
#5
Posted 2007-June-19, 23:30
jillybean2, on Jun 19 2007, 11:17 PM, said:
What is the difference between this and Inverted minors?
Inverted minors is 1m-2m = invite or better (10+) and 1m-3m = 6-9.
Criss-cross the way I know it is 1m-2m = GF, 1m-3m = 6-9, and 1C-2D and 1D-3C = invite.
#6
Posted 2007-June-20, 00:25
jillybean2, on Jun 20 2007, 12:01 AM, said:
CrissCross appears to be straight forward:
1♣:2♦ game force ♣'s
1♦:3♣ game force ♦'s
1♣:2♣ constructive ♣'s
1♦:2♦ constructive ♦'s
Is 1♦:2♣ natural ?
Can anyone add anything to this. I can only find one site if I google it and I can't locate it on BridgeGuys
tyia
jb
1st, you should know that there are multiple conventions running around all called "criss cross"
1= In Contested Auctions, 1m-(X)-jumpshift in the other minor
shows a Limit Raise+ in Opener's minor. This helps to right side NT contracts and put the T/O X'er on lead. This replaces Jordan/Truscott 2N.
All the others are for Uncontested Auctions.
2= 1C-2D! and 1D-3C! as Inverted minor raises.
3= 1m-2m! +and+ 1m-JSom! are Inverted minors raises. There are multiple variations.
a= 1m-2m! is a LR and 1m-JSom! is a GF raise.
b= reverse the meanings.
c= 1m-2m! is a LR+ =without= a side stiff or void, 1m-JSom! is a LR+ =with= a side stiff or void.
Of the variations of Criss-cross, I routinely play "1" in Contested Auctions and "3c" in Uncontested Auctions because I feel they are the best of the above choices if I am playing Criss-cross.
However, using 4 sequences to show minor suit raises of various types has a cost.
The most nasty of which is the loss of 1D-3C for other purposes.
1D-2C is already one of the harder auctions. Having 1D-3C available for =non= raising hands (Invitational JS for instance) can be very handy. Up to you to decide if the gains are worth the price.
#7
Posted 2007-June-20, 00:29
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#8
Posted 2007-June-20, 06:40
jillybean2, on Jun 20 2007, 12:01 AM, said:
CrissCross appears to be straight forward:
1♣:2♦ game force ♣'s
1♦:3♣ game force ♦'s
1♣:2♣ constructive ♣'s
1♦:2♦ constructive ♦'s
Is 1♦:2♣ natural ?
Can anyone add anything to this. I can only find one site if I google it and I can't locate it on BridgeGuys
tyia
jb
I play CrissCross all the time.
1c=2d=game force unbalanced very often
1d=3c=game force unbalanced very often
1minor=2s=invite unbalanced often
1minor=2minor=weak, poor shape 4+clubs
1minor=3minor=weak, more shape 5+clubs
1minor=2minor is not constructive, it is weak with poor shape.
1D=2C is not part of CrissCross, I happen to play all 2/1 bids 100% forcing.
Yes, that means if I have long clubs and an invite hand and partner opens 1D I have no perfect bid. This is a hole I choose to live with. Most of the time I will respond 1nt or 2nt invite with that hand, not perfect. In practice this is rarely a problem since active opp often overcall in a major and now I can bid a natural 2clubs. Again this is not part of CrissCross and more a style of how you play 2/1 bids.
Any questions PM me.
#11
Posted 2007-June-20, 09:17
jillybean2, on Jun 20 2007, 12:01 AM, said:
CrissCross appears to be straight forward:
1♣:2♦ game force ♣'s
1♦:3♣ game force ♦'s
1♣:2♣ constructive ♣'s
1♦:2♦ constructive ♦'s
Is 1♦:2♣ natural ?
Can anyone add anything to this. I can only find one site if I google it and I can't locate it on BridgeGuys
tyia
jb
I play criss-cross very, very simply:
jumpshift in other minor= limit raise or better
single raise of minor: merely a single raise... anything up to just less than limit.
Jump raises are weak
Now, in these partnerships I usually play weak notrumps, which works well because opener will not have a minimum balanced hand in 1st or 2nd seat.
But I do think that playing the criss-cross as gf is too limiting and places far too high a load on the single raise....or gets you jumping to 3minor on the wrong kind of hand.
#12
Posted 2007-June-20, 09:22
ie holding xx,AJx,KQTxx,KJx after partner opens 1♦.
I have no idea what this means, the formulae and abbreviations put me off reading it at all.
Quote
a= 1m-2m! is a LR and 1m-JSom! is a GF raise.
b= reverse the meanings.
c= 1m-2m! is a LR+ =without= a side stiff or void, 1m-JSom! is a LR+ =with= a side stiff or void.
And FLIPFLOPS are what you wear on your feet now that THONGS are no longer suitable footwear
![:D](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
edit: thanks Mike, you beat me to it
(still learning)
#13
Posted 2007-June-20, 09:41
jillybean2, on Jun 20 2007, 10:22 AM, said:
ie holding xx,AJx,KQTxx,KJx after partner opens 1♦.
I have no idea what this means, the formulae and abbreviations put me off reading it at all.
Quote
a= 1m-2m! is a Limit Raise and 1m-Jump Shift om! is a GF raise.
b= reverse the meanings.
c= 1m-2m! is a Limit Raise or better =without= a side stiff or void,
1m-Jump Shift om! is a Limit Raise or better =with= a side stiff or void.
Then keep it simple® and just play 1m-2m! as good old fashioned "Limit Raise or Better" Inverted Minors.
Bid naturally afterward.
So Opener rebids
1= 2M with that Major, or
2= 2N with both Majors, or
3= 3m w/ neither of the above and 5+m
Responder is Captain and rebids based on what Opener has said or implied is needed.
Also, if Inverted Minors's are only coming up 1 in 200 hands, you aren't using them enough.
Start using them with only 4 card support in
a= shapely hands of Invitational Strength and
b= with any shape hand of GF strength.
The expectation of a 1m opening is ~5 cards.
#14
Posted 2007-June-20, 10:11
![B)](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Paul Thurston's (I think he's the author) 25 Steps to Learning 2/1 advocates Criss-Cross as invitational plus, I think.
As others have alluded, you need to consider the follow-on structure in any case.
For a first foray into finding a way to make a forcing raise of 1m, I'd go with inverted raises inv+.
![:blink:](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#15
Posted 2007-June-20, 11:00
However, I strongly feel that some kind of forcing minor raise is good. It doesn't have to be GF, but just a 1 round force like normal basic invm.
So, if you learn a basic invm response and continuation system you can likely use it with others on BBO. Unfortunately, there are many response and continuation methods. Can someone please link us to something simple, basic and useful for continuing on after the invm bids ?
Alternately, mikeh's scheme using criss cross allows you to retain the simple single raise as normal which can be useful in fighting for part scores, or making sure (esp important at IMP) that you play and make 2 or 3 m rather than being off 1 in 1NT.
I do think a forcing minor raise is a must and playing 1m-3m as limit takes up so much space and results in guess work for 3NT or 5m and sometimes even 6m.
Your example hand xx,AJx,KQTxx,KJx after a 1♦ opening shows why it is nice to have a forcing raise (as do numerous inv responding hands). In your example if you don't have a forcing raise you have to lie 1♥ (can be very dangerous when pd knows you have 4) or lie 2♣ and then at least you can pull whatever happens in ♣ to ♦ and hope for the best. Or you simple blurt out 3NT, missing slams at times, and getting set when you have 5 ♠ losers on the lead and 5♦ is cold.
I suggest finding a simple invm scheme and looking at it deeply as you should be able to play it commonly on BBO.
.. neilkaz ..
#16 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-June-20, 13:39
1m-2m=normal raise
1m-3m=limit raise
1m-jump Om=GF raise.
When I learned this it was called criss cross
It is definitely very simple and an improvement on having no GF raise. And it works fine over 1C. The real problem I ended up having with it was that there wasn't enough room to work with over 1D-3C as a GF raise. If you want me to suggest something slightly artificial I would go with:
1D-3C
3M=short
1D-3C
3D=waiting, can be slam try or some major unstopped. Responder then bids a major suit he has a stopper in.
1D-3C
3N=both majors stopped no slam interest.
#17
Posted 2007-June-20, 23:20
Question for Mike, if you use CrissCross as inv+ minor raise how do you make a GF minor raise?
Justin, 1♦:3♣ 3M = shortage, singleton or void?
(still learning)
#18 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-June-21, 01:45
jillybean2, on Jun 21 2007, 12:20 AM, said:
That is what i'd recommend yes.
#19
Posted 2007-June-22, 10:39
Jlall, on Jun 21 2007, 12:45 AM, said:
jillybean2, on Jun 21 2007, 12:20 AM, said:
That is what i'd recommend yes.
Thanks, I was just checking that I understood 'short' correctly
![:P](http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(still learning)
#20
Posted 2007-June-30, 01:51
West North East South
- - - 1♣
Pass 1♦ Pass 1♥
Pass 2♣ Pass Pass
Pass
This made 7♣ on a ♣ lead..I had not discussed forcing minor raises with this partner. How would you have bid it? 1♣:3♣
(still learning)