[jillybean]

1♣:1♥
1♠:2♦
?

---

How do you bid this after 4sf? I know some of you won’t agree with the opening; just imagine you were subbed into a game after this turkey left.

Does 2♥ here always promise 3?


tyia
jb

[inquiry]

2NT... process of elimination.

No four card diamond suit, so no 3♦. No three card support so no 2♥, really pathetic spades and only four clubs, so black suit rebids out. And, I have a diamond "stopper."

Since you play all 4sf as gf, you might want to consider which is a weaker bid, 2NT or 3NT. If 3NT is weaker, you will want to bid that I guess. If 2♦ is not GF, then 2NT works out just about right if partner has an option to pass this.

This hand is clearly optional opening bid by even agressive bidders, but yes, I would open it.

[jillybean]

Ok, I was hoping that there was a get out of jail free card I could use after I opened light. 2nt didnt seem right, I like the idea of 3nt min.

[jdonn]

I would certainly bid 2♥ with a doubleton (just make sure your partner knows you would do this!), but see no need on this hand with diamonds stopped and no heart honor. 2NT all the way.

[Edmunte1]

2NT standard. I've already opened, it's not time for taking back

[cherdano]

jillybean2, on May 29 2007, 11:38 PM, said:

Ok, I was hoping that there was a get out of jail free card I could use after I opened light. 2nt didnt seem right, I like the idea of 3nt min.

If you feel bad about opening once your partner forces to game, then maybe you shouldn't have opened -- but there is no way to "undo" your opening, just make your normal bids.

[Fluffy]

I don't like to support with doubleton, specially wihout a honnor, it is at the bottom of my list. I normally do it this way:

-Raise 4th Suit (not to the 4 level)
-support with 3 cards
-Bid NT with stopper
-Show extra lenght in a suit
-Support with doubleton honnor
-Bid NT with Half a stopper
-Rebid a very powerful suit
-Support with 2 cards
-Rebid your longest suit.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

ok, ... I am a substitute.
Hence I have no idea, if 2D is already
game forcing, ...

Bid 2NT, showing the stopper and hope to
survive, i.e. hope, that partner does not
believe, that 2NT is stronger than 3NT

And yes 2H shows 3card support.

It gets harder, if the King of diamonds would be
the King of spades, because you are really dead,
i.e. you would need to invent a bid.

No idea, ... maybe 2S (which some would interpret
as 6-5) or maybe 3C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: It is only partially a problem of the light opener

KJ10x
xx
xxx
AKQx

most people would open, but you face a similar problem,
pick your poison.

[whereagles]

If 4SF is GF: 3NT (fast arrival, shows a min)
If 4SF is F1: 2NT (cannot force game with a min)

[Walddk]

jillybean2, on May 30 2007, 07:38 AM, said:

Ok, I was hoping that there was a get out of jail free card I could use after I opened light. 2nt didnt seem right, I like the idea of 3nt min.

I recommend that you don't open balanced 11 counts (unless you play mini-NT). Once you have opened, there is no way to tell partner that you should not.

2♥ would have been fine with a doubleton if your hand was ....

♠ J10xx
♥ Kx
♦ xxx
♣ AKxx

... but as it was you have a descriptive NT rebid. 2NT or 3NT depending on agreement whether fourth suit is game forcing or not. It is for you I can see by reading your avatar, so 3NT seems right.

Roland

[Dwingo]

whereagles, on May 30 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

If 4SF is GF: 3NT (fast arrival, shows a min)
If 4SF is F1: 2NT (cannot force game with a min)

I was wondering, if Fast Arrival is applicable for Opener. I always thought it was applicable only for Responder.

If 4th suit is GF, what is the hurry in bidding 3NT. After all Responder has not yet set the Strain. He is an unlimited hand and he will need the space to fix the Strain and find out about more about your hand.

Lets say Responder is dealt a monster of a hand - ♠AK ♥AKQJ1098 ♦XX ♣XX, what do you expect him to do after 3NT?

He will need the space for him to set ♥ as trump with the 3♥ bid after 2NT and you can cue the ♦K - 4♦ and he can take control after that.

Godwin

[Walddk]

Dwingo, on May 30 2007, 01:34 PM, said:

whereagles, on May 30 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

If 4SF is GF: 3NT (fast arrival, shows a min)
If 4SF is F1: 2NT (cannot force game with a min)

I was wondering, if Fast Arrival is applicable for Opener. I always thought it was applicable only for Responder.

If 4th suit is GF, what is the hurry in bidding 3NT. After all Responder has not yet set the Strain. He is an unlimited hand and he will need the space to fix the Strain and find out about more about your hand.

Lets say Responder is dealt a monster of a hand - ♠AK ♥AKQJ1098 ♦XX ♣XX, what do you expect him to do after 3NT?

He will need the space for him to set ♥ as trump with the 3♥ bid after 2NT and you can cue the ♦K - 4♦ and he can take control after that.

Godwin

Good point, and experts do not agree. If you ask Eric O. Kokish, he would play 2NT as either 12-14 or 18-19 and 3NT as 15-17 (unbalanced). Again, it all depends on your agreement. For example, if you have strong jump shifts available, responder would bid 2♥ with the hand you show.

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

Dwingo, on May 30 2007, 06:34 AM, said:

whereagles, on May 30 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

If 4SF is GF: 3NT (fast arrival, shows a min)
If 4SF is F1: 2NT (cannot force game with a min)

I was wondering, if Fast Arrival is applicable for Opener. I always thought it was applicable only for Responder.

If 4th suit is GF, what is the hurry in bidding 3NT. After all Responder has not yet set the Strain. He is an unlimited hand and he will need the space to fix the Strain and find out about more about your hand.

Lets say Responder is dealt a monster of a hand - ♠AK ♥AKQJ1098 ♦XX ♣XX, what do you expect him to do after 3NT?

He will need the space for him to set ♥ as trump with the 3♥ bid after 2NT and you can cue the ♦K - 4♦ and he can take control after that.

Godwin

As was already said, partnership agreement.
But it will help, if you can limit your hand, else
you will have the problem, that you run out of
space, without having told how strong / weak you
are.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

As I never raise on 3 cards without a singleton I would not bid 2♥ here with xx.
As 4sF seems to be GF as in your profile I like 3NT here (partner I've got your stopper, will you please leave me alone now?).

[whereagles]

The fast arrival concept must be refurbished on GF situations. It is the same thing in 2/1 auctions.

[pbleighton]

Quote

If you feel bad about opening once your partner forces to game, then maybe you shouldn't have opened -- but there is no way to "undo" your opening, just make your normal bids.

Agree.

Peter

[jillybean]

cherdano, on May 29 2007, 11:49 PM, said:

jillybean2, on May 29 2007, 11:38 PM, said:

Ok, I was hoping that there was a get out of jail free card I could use after I opened light. 2nt didnt seem right, I like the idea of 3nt min.

If you feel bad about opening once your partner forces to game, then maybe you shouldn't have opened -- but there is no way to "undo" your opening, just make your normal bids.

I don't feel bad about my opening, in other situations, other partners I may pass this. However, here I chose to open and I was wondering if there was a method to tell my partner that my hand is minimum.

[jdonn]

There is not an expert in the universe who would play 3NT as a minimum. If that is an exageration it is barely one. Jumps like that show extras in game forcing auctions where either or both players are unlimited, especially into 3NT.