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This hand is from the second session of the Prokom
Software Grand Prix which was broadcast live on
BBO on Friday:
Nobody was vulnerable and you were the dealer.
S: xx
H: AKJ10xx
D: J
C: QJxx
1H Pass 1S 3D
?
Would you rebid 3H or Pass?
Do you think that the answer is clear?
If you watched this hand on vugraph you may
recall that there was a rather passionate discussion
about this problem (or non-problem as some think).
I don't recall 2 of our commentators (I was one of
them) getting into such a long and heated debate
during any of our previous vugraph shows.
I am wondering how it looked to the audience.
Did you find this aspect of the commentary to
be entertaining, interesting, distasteful (feel free
to supply your own adjectives)?
Getting feedback about what our vugraph audience
likes and doesn't like in terms of commentary will
help us to improve the commentary of broadcasts
in the future.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
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Hand from Prokom tournament vugraph
#1
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Posted 2003-December-21, 12:22
#2
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Posted 2003-December-21, 14:24
Sorry I missed this hand, I was traveling on Friday. I would pass over 3Diamonds this hand if partner would not take DBL as showing clubs and good hearts with no tolerance for spades. I would not rebid 3H's.
As far as disagreement between commentators, as a general rule, I like the disagreements, so that I can hear different opinions.
Ben
As far as disagreement between commentators, as a general rule, I like the disagreements, so that I can hear different opinions.
Ben
--Ben--
#3
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Posted 2003-December-21, 21:02
Hi Fred!
As I posted already in BBO forum you are one of the few good commentators, because you explain WHY you think so, thank you! Most of others primary feel need to say what they like or dont like based on their "expert feelings", rather than facts at table. The too quick and often wrong "prediction" and lack of knoledge of bidding systems lead to thought: "May be without same commenting will be better, at least will not distract people form play at table?"
Misho
As I posted already in BBO forum you are one of the few good commentators, because you explain WHY you think so, thank you! Most of others primary feel need to say what they like or dont like based on their "expert feelings", rather than facts at table. The too quick and often wrong "prediction" and lack of knoledge of bidding systems lead to thought: "May be without same commenting will be better, at least will not distract people form play at table?"
Misho
MishoVnBg
#4
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Posted 2003-December-21, 23:26
Afraid I wasn't in the audience but I think disagreement between experts can be a healthy thing. It highlights to mortals that things are not straightforward even to experts.
In the problem given I Pass without much conviction that this is right.
Partner would have raised to 2H with a minimum responding hand, three hearts and long spades so I don't see the need to bid 3H purely competitively.
In a similar vein it is not clear what strain we want to play in (though admittedly with such a good suit 3H might not be doubled even when it is a fairly unsound contract). Bidding 3H doesn't really leave it open for partner to explore the options.
If partner reopens with a double do I bid game? I think so. Is this inconsistent? I think not as partner presumably has some diamond length and so must have compensating strength for his bid.
Ian
In the problem given I Pass without much conviction that this is right.
Partner would have raised to 2H with a minimum responding hand, three hearts and long spades so I don't see the need to bid 3H purely competitively.
In a similar vein it is not clear what strain we want to play in (though admittedly with such a good suit 3H might not be doubled even when it is a fairly unsound contract). Bidding 3H doesn't really leave it open for partner to explore the options.
If partner reopens with a double do I bid game? I think so. Is this inconsistent? I think not as partner presumably has some diamond length and so must have compensating strength for his bid.
Ian
#5
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Posted 2003-December-23, 19:17
what was the 3D bid? preemptive? i will probably be in the minority here (i wasn't in the audience either), but i'd bid 3H... i don't think pard's 1S bid necessarily denies heart support (what would he bid with 4324 and opening strength?), tho it's likely he doesn't have much support
the only good thing i can see about pass is, pard may be able to double 3D.. but what if he can't, or won't? and what if he *does*? is it penalty? we can hardly be said to be in a forcing auction... on the flip side, if pard does have a modicum of strength he won't let the bidding die
what was the consensus, fred?
the only good thing i can see about pass is, pard may be able to double 3D.. but what if he can't, or won't? and what if he *does*? is it penalty? we can hardly be said to be in a forcing auction... on the flip side, if pard does have a modicum of strength he won't let the bidding die
what was the consensus, fred?
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#6
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Posted 2003-December-23, 20:05
Quote
the only good thing i can see about pass is, pard may be able to double 3D.. but what if he can't, or won't? and what if he *does*? is it penalty? we can hardly be said to be in a forcing auction... on the flip side, if pard does have a modicum of strength he won't let the bidding die
what was the consensus, fred?
Hi Jimmy, some players like to use all non-conventional doubles until a fit is found as TAKEOUT. For those players, including me, a double with this hand directly over 3D is TAKEOUT, and if you pass and your partner reopens with a double, these same people play that for takeout. When you have one diamond, you put a lot of pressure on your partner to reopen when he has three diamonds.
That is why I think there should be a discussion of three bids over 3D... The 3H and Pass fred mentioned in his post, and double of 3D by this hand (so if partner has a penalty double hand he can pass our double.... no other way to play 3Dx).
Ben
--Ben--
#7
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Posted 2003-December-23, 20:33
my choice would go on 3H . it's very dangrous yes . and i guess the bid will depend on the SOTM (state of the match) but i think that partner MAY be in trouble to bid again .
regards
syl
regards
syl
#8
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Posted 2003-December-23, 21:41
Quote
my choice would go on 3H . it's very dangrous yes . and i guess the bid will depend on the SOTM (state of the match) but i think that partner MAY be in trouble to bid again .
regards
syl
regards
syl
I agree with this whole hearted
But I think in MP's y r more likely to bid 3 H, pd doesn't know about the 6 th H and the H suit looks pretty nice to me and the hand is about a 5 loser hand ( I was born an optimist ). And it also depends what X wud show after 3 D. As for the commentators disagreeing, I think that is good, there are many ideas and opinions out there in the bridge world, let's hear them 
. Y don't have to agree, or maybe y do, but it makes y think ;D Isn't that part of Bridge?Mike ;D
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
#9
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Posted 2003-December-23, 23:19
Quote
what was the 3D bid? preemptive? i will probably be in the minority here (i wasn't in the audience either), but i'd bid 3H... i don't think pard's 1S bid necessarily denies heart support (what would he bid with 4324 and opening strength?), tho it's likely he doesn't have much support
the only good thing i can see about pass is, pard may be able to double 3D.. but what if he can't, or won't? and what if he *does*? is it penalty? we can hardly be said to be in a forcing auction... on the flip side, if pard does have a modicum of strength he won't let the bidding die
what was the consensus, fred?
the only good thing i can see about pass is, pard may be able to double 3D.. but what if he can't, or won't? and what if he *does*? is it penalty? we can hardly be said to be in a forcing auction... on the flip side, if pard does have a modicum of strength he won't let the bidding die
what was the consensus, fred?
No consensus. Opinions ranged from "pass is clear"
to "3H is clear" and everything in between.
Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
#10
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Posted 2003-December-25, 02:37
"We" love the commentary, which are entertaining and interesting. Without them, we would not find the Vuegraphs so exciting. I am sure we all look forward to next broadcasts! So please go on. I became a viewer during the Bowl - and been BBO fan since!
As for the hand - what to bid: it is the "winning" line that is the right one! Partnership understanding is a point here: a bold partner would bid 3 H. The hand is a good one, for either 4H or 3NT (Honnors in S & C are for finnessing!
As for the hand - what to bid: it is the "winning" line that is the right one! Partnership understanding is a point here: a bold partner would bid 3 H. The hand is a good one, for either 4H or 3NT (Honnors in S & C are for finnessing!
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