[Chamaco]

Hi all,
sorry, I have posted this question before on rec.games.bridge, but most replies could not give me literature references.

The question is related to bidding against weak NT.
It is NOT related to the best convention (whether Astro, Landy, Capp, Brozel, or whatever) but rather on hand evaluation.

I am not looking for a description of a convention but rather for a LOT of examples described in a book.

Bidding vs weak NT is difficult because you don't know whom the hand belongs to, as opposed to strong NT: when opp open a strong NT, 90% of the time, the hand belongs to opps; and even if it does not, you are not very worried, because most pèrobably the rest of the field (or the in the other room), nobody will bid an unlikely game.
So the bidding vs strong NT is almost purely preemptive, no worries of preempting partner.
But against weak NT, inexperience dplayers like me have trouble bidding and deciding when to penalize opps, or when to show a 1-2suiter, or when simply sit and pass.
Even more difficult sequences arise when you have to respond yto pard's penalty double, whether opp escape, pass or redouble.

But, since ACOL is based on weak NT and seems rather widespread in quite a few places in the worls, it seems strange to me thgat there does not exist a book, or a chapter, on bidding vs weak NT (I already own the book "Double" by Mike Lawrence, where he deals with this topic but he himaself admits he is only scratching the surface).

Thanks !!

Mauro

[irdoz]

I play both weak no trump and mini no trump. I play against weak no trump a bit. I also play against a lot of people who are unfamiliar with bidding against a weak no trump and see some common mistakes they make.

I am not aware of any book or book chapter particularly specialising in defending against a weak no trump. I am aware of a number of people who give their conventional methods and agreements for defending against a weak no trump but not a book with a whole lot of hand examples...

Here are a few observations based on my experiences of watching people who are unfamiliar with defending against a weak no trump and my own experiences...

1. Have an agreement about what HCP range double is and what point range a conventional or one-suited call in the immediate seat shows

2. Your methods should include some preemptive one-suited calls

3. Weak no trump is not an invitation to bid with weak hands in the immediate seat...one of the advantages of playing weak no trump is relatively easy penalty double decisions..there's nothing worse than turning a part score hand into a -500.

4. In standard methods a weak no trump hand is opened 1 minor and when the person in the next seat has a 4-4-3-2 hand shape with 2 in the minor thats been opened they have an easy takeout double. Against weak no trump taking action with this hand is harder. Part of your methods - particularly in MPs - should include some scrambling bid for balanced hands where you are 'scrambling' for a fit at the 2-level. Because it may be dangerous to intervene with this hand in the immediate seat, you need an agreement about some form of protective double when the auction goes pass-1nt-pass-pass-? - in these instances the objective is to get them out of 1nt

5. Whatever method you choose - be it Capp, or ASPRO or any of its cousins, or... know the constructive methods inside out (ie how to invite/force game) - against strong no trump these rarely occur...against weak no trump they can be vital - particularly in IMPs... and in my experience the wide range people use for overcalls/interventions means lots of games are missed and/or the bidding gets too high.

6. Letting weak no trump players off the hook when they start their escape sequences happens a lot I've observed... not only are some healthy penalties missed but games are missed as well because there's no agreement on what it means when the 'defenders' make a call other than pass or double. The bottom line is that weak no trump is hard to defend against...but occasionally (rarely in my experience) it can be hit for large penalties...I have a page of notes for bidding against the common escape method I play against that has been developed from experience and isnt very good - partly because like you I havent been able to locate good references.

[Chamaco]

4. In standard methods a weak no trump hand is opened 1 minor and when the person in the next seat has a 4-4-3-2 hand shape with 2 in the minor thats been opened they have an easy takeout double. Against weak no trump taking action with this hand is harder. Part of your methods - particularly in MPs - should include some scrambling bid for balanced hands where you are 'scrambling' for a fit at the 2-level. Because it may be dangerous to intervene with this hand in the immediate seat, you need an agreement about some form of protective double when the auction goes pass-1nt-pass-pass-? - in these instances the objective is to get them out of 1nt


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Ty irdoz.
Your observations are very much coherent with the issues my post wants to arise.
It seems most intermediate/advanced players are worried defining a convention on how to show unbalanced hands and a penalty double vs weak NT, with a given convention, which is fine (I play Capp or Landy by the way), but they fail to define the development of sequences and agreements.

The point I have left quited is a very interesting one:
innfact, I am trying with my p to built a set of agreements in defending vs weak NT with my regular p, and I have tentatively sugested that in the balancing seat 1NT-p-p-? one shd try to reopen with a "penalty" doublewith as little as 11 hcp, to protect those hands where p has passed with 13 HCP; even when he has less, a partscore may be easily available. Of course sometimes responder has 8-9 points and a penalty awaits the balancer, that's the risk, very much like balancing over a preempt.

However, I am reading on Lawrence's book that he considers this treatment is very poor (exactly for the risk above mentioned), and that he thinks penalty double HCP should be unchanged in any seat.


Another issue is the following:
1) dbl shows some hcp content (say 14-15+)
2) a 1-2 suiter bid shows a given shape

What do you do when you have BOTH a 2 suiter AND 15+ HCP?
Do you show your shape (risking that pard will consider your hand weaker, say 10+ hcp ) ?
Or do you double to show strength first ? If you double to show strength first but ur hand is unbalanced:
a) your LHO could make a preemptive jump in a suit where you are short, leaving your pair in dire straits when you may have still have to show a fit at higher level (remember, your pard does not know you are unbalanced)
your p could leave the dbl in unaware of a good fit, and usually hands that have good fit do not get rich doubling at low level