[inquiry]

2C*    2D*
2H     3C
3D     3S
4D     4NT!
5C     5S
5N    7D

2C = strong forcing
2D = waiting or negative
2H/3C/3D = natural
3S = "fsf"
4D = natural (4D bidder had spade stopper btw)
4NT = blackwood (what suit is agreed? Is diamonds 100% sure?)
5C = 0 or 3 keycards
5S = queen ask
5NT = queen
7D

Ok.. 7D was not exactly laydown but makes easily and is the contact you want to be in seeing both hands. The actual hands are fairly immaterial (the ace asker had a void, but ok).

1) Can we agree that 4NT must agree diamonds? Partner could have raised to 3H over 3D then bid 4NT if he wanted to RKBC for hearts. Agree or Disagree?

2) With a subminimum 2C opener (18 hcp) and 5-5 in the reds, but with a spade stopper, would you tend to bid 3NT or rebid your five card diamond suit over 4NT (good red suits AQJxx in both).

3) After 5C, 0-3 keycards, is it necessary to bid 5♠ to ask for the ♦Q. If opener has three keycards could he possibly pass a 5♦ bid? Should 5♠ be an asking bid in ♠'s?

4) if you had the trump queen (as in this case), should you bid 4NT or something else? Does 5NT promise something nice in addition to the diamond queen (maybe queen or king of clubs)?

Getting to 7D is not great feat, many did. But with the responders hand below, would you have bid 3♣ immediately over 2♣? If you still would have bid 2♦ waiting, you surely agree with 3♣, would have have bid 3♠ over 3♦ or supported ♦ immediately?
xxx
void
Kxxx
AKTxxx

Good Bridge? Blind luck with one big hand opposite another?

[awm]

(1) Agree that 4NT sets diamonds. Of course, there is a question as to how one bids a "quantitative" 4NT but I suggest that 4NT over 3♦ should be that hand. Minority view for sure though.

(2) Probably rebid 3NT. Depends on the exact hand (stiff ♠A maybe I would bid 4♦, but assuming ♠Ax or Kx and short clubs I would bid 3NT).

(3) Opener can pass 5♦ with three keycards. When one hand has shown such substantial strength that zero keycards is not a serious possibility, he should not bid on after a possibly NF call following RKC. There are hands on this auction where partner would ask with zero keycards.

(4) I'd assume that 6♦ denies the queen, and that 6♣ is more encouraging than 5NT (unless you play step responses to queen asks, in which case it's the opposite). So 5NT should be the default "I have the queen" call.

Bidding 2♦ is fine (when in doubt bidding 2♦ is often right). I would bid 4♦ over 3♦ though.

[mikeh]

1. 4N agrees ♦s

2. I'd shoot myself before opening 2♣ on a 5-5 red two suiter with 18 points, and I would not play twice in a partnership in which partner chose to do so. Thus I cannot answer this question. Seriously, just how tough is it to bid such hands normally? Why expose ourselves to black suit preemption? Why show defensive values we don't have? How does partner know when we hold a real red 2♣ opening? etc etc

3. If 4N was keycard in ♦, then I do not understand why 5♥ would not be the Queen ask. I agree that 5♦ should not be, but if we belong in 5♥, somebody make a very serious mistake earlier in the auction.

4. I play that 5N, in response to Queen ask, shows the Queen with an unbiddable King: that is a King in a suit I cannot bid below 6 of the trump suit.

[inquiry]

awm, on Nov 10 2006, 04:09 PM, said:

(1) ....I suggest that 4NT over 3♦ should be that hand. Minority view for sure though.

(2) Probably rebid 3NT. Depends on the exact hand (stiff ♠A maybe I would bid 4♦, but assuming ♠Ax or Kx and short clubs I would bid 3NT).

1,,,Not so miniority, I agree 4NT over 3♦ is quantitative.. and since we seldom agree, when we do it just has to be right.

2... Ax AQJxx AQJxx x if memory serves me correctly. So Ax

I agree with mikeh that this is not a 2♣ opening bid.. but we will get a consensus on that latter I hope.

[mike777]

I guess 4nt must be rkc for D. I doubt I can have real spades and be trying to get out in 4nt? Partner sure does not promise a spade stopper.

Trying to figure out what the responder hand is that is not worried about spades and can bid rkc but bids 3s as 4sf and not 3nt hmmm?

Still think partner can have the 18 hcp hand from the other post in the reds .

[Robert]

Hi everyone

4NT is natural in my methods. When were diamonds agreed? Why didn't I jump to 4NT over 3D 'to agree' diamonds? Have you never held a misfit and wanted to bid a natural 4NT?

You use 4sf and follow up with a natural NT bid 'when you are' out of range for a natural NT 'that might be passed.'

I use Kickback RKC for the minors to 'agree' suits and ask for key cards. Some pairs use 3D-4D as RKC(which would solve the problem here), however, it is not a method that I would want to play.

That comment that 5H* would be the trump queen ask 'if' the 4NT had been RKC for diamonds is also correct. "If" you are off two Key cards and want to stop in 5NT, you bid an 'unbid suit'(5S) to force partner to bid 5NT and you can now pass.

I use a GSF method that shows 'extra trumps' so that I can bid a Grand 'holding'
ten trumps 'without' the trump queen.

Bidding 2C-2D holding AKxxx of clubs 'plus' a side King quite simply amazes me. What at the values needed to make a positive reply to this 2C opening? Do you really need three quick tricks plus a suit of AKxxx to bid 2C-3C?

Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometimes.

This pair should go over their bidding methods or never play together again.

With a subminimum 2C opening, just open with a one bid. Sometimes having the values promised is not a bad idea.

5NT in reply to the trump queen ask should promise something extra(normally a side king) It would deny the club King since you could bid 6C with that holding.

Holding that hand opposite a 2C opener, would the bid of an ace asking 'exclusion' bid possibly be of any use? It would agree diamonds and also 'avoid' asking for aces 'when one of them may or may not be in your void suit.'

Lucky bridge, not good bridge. Neither partner showed much skill in the bidding. They bumped and bounced into a makeable contract. Another time, they would end up in a doubled contract 'missing' a cashing Ace or two.

Regards,
Robert

[FrancesHinden]

1. No, but then I don't play any of these 4NT bids as Blackwood. I expect responder to be looking for club support which is why he didn't bid 4NT next round. But playing with an unspecified pick-up partner it's probably RKCB in diamonds because the world has an ongoing love affair with ace-asking.

2. I would have opened 1H. First choice if available, an Acol 2H. This is a weaker hand than the 6502 I said was borderline in the other thread, and it doesn't have spades.

3. 5H is the queen ask. You can agree that 5D ought to be opposite 3 key cards, it's worth discussing. But if don't know how to ask for the queen of trumps opposite a blackwood response I should go back to playing 4NT as natural, see 1. above.

4. 5NT over the queen ask means whatever you've agreed it to mean. If you don't know what continuations you play after RKCB, don't play it. See 1.

5. I would have responded 3C to 2C: if that hand isn't a positive in clubs, then this pair should play a 3m response as artificial because they clearly are never going to be dealt a natural positive.

Having responded 2D of course I would have raised 3D: since when is Kxxx not good enough support to raise at once? I might just have raised 3D to 7D, that's what the hand is worth... but if partner opens 2C on random 5-5 18-counts I probably have to check we aren't off two fast spade tricks.

[MFA]

FrancesHinden's post makes good sense.

Clear 1♥ opening.
Clear 3♣ response to 2♣.

Why didn't responder support diamonds with 4♦ instead of that silly 3♠?