[Miron]

Scoring: IMP

p - p - 3♠ - ?

---

[jillybean]

No source of tricks for 3nt,
I'd rather have 1 or 2 more ♥'s for 4♥
Double for penalty I think.

jb

[inquiry]

Double on this auction isn't played as penalty by most players i know, certainly including me. This looks easy to me. 3NT what else?

[HeartA]

inquiry, on Nov 13 2006, 06:21 PM, said:

Double on this auction isn't played as penalty by most players i know, certainly including me. This looks easy to me. 3NT what else?

I voted for dbl (not for penalty though). I would be happy if pd converted to penalty (not likely). If pd bid 4C, I would bid 4H. If pd bid 4D/4H, I bid 4S. If pd bid 5C, well ......

[mikeh]

jb: no one currently plays this double as penalty: it is takeout.

Many years ago, there was a convention called Fishbein (after its inventor) that used direct doubles as penalty and the bid of the next highest suit (here, 4♣) as a takeout double kind of hand. The convention fell into disuse for a number of reasons. With today's trend to very light preempts, it might be interesting to revitalize the bid, but the downsides of having to bid 4♣ on the double hands are way too big.

A compromise gadget, known as Weiss, used double as a strong notrump hand, encouraging partner to pass frequently, but this has never really gained traction.

As for what I bid: 3N for me. Possessing the A10x gives me some control: I can duck a couple of rounds and hope to freeze out RHO, or I may find as little as stiff J or Q in dummy and gain an additional stopper.

No way am I doubling: to double and then bid 4♥ shows a different, and much stronger playing, hand. We could easily end up too high if he has, say, Hx in ♥ and a good hand... he will play us for a hand too good to overcall 4♥.... a bid that has a high upper limit.

The idea of bidding 4♥ on a short, not good suit, makes me shudder.

Pass is the only alternative to 3N that makes any sense: there is some chance that partner can reopen (double) on hands on which game is good. But bridge is a bidder's game and, even if 3N is horrible, we are not down yet. Besides, I'd bid 3N without the ♣K, so this is not even close to a minimum for me.

[inquiry]

HeartA, on Nov 13 2006, 06:27 PM, said:

inquiry, on Nov 13 2006, 06:21 PM, said:

Double on this auction isn't played as penalty by most players i know, certainly including me. This looks easy to me. 3NT what else?

I voted for dbl (not for penalty though). I would be happy if pd converted to penalty (not likely). If pd bid 4C, I would bid 4H. If pd bid 4D/4H, I bid 4S. If pd bid 5C, well ......

Dbl and then pull to 4♥ shows quite a different hand than what we hold-- and much better hearts. Let me ask, why did you choose not to bid 3NT? Is it the singleton ♣? IF you had Kx of clubs and a ♦ less would you be more likely to bid 3NT?

[gwnn]

Because every other else seems to be grossly far from my hand, I think I'll just double and hope for the best - that would involve pulling 4c to 4h, probably.

[whereagles]

Dbl and pull 4♣ to 4♥, showing 2 places to play with better hearts.

Having indoctrinated myself into Robson/Segal lore, I don't think this auction should show a good-one-suited-hand (GOSH) in hearts.

[pclayton]

3N. No trick source? Maybe, but we can shut out righty and build tricks in time.

4♥ is 2nd choice.

I can't untangle the auction if I start with a double.

[the hog]

3NT looks clear. Katherine, most players these days play X for takeout. Having said this, X on this hand is a poor, thoughtless bid. What is partner supposed to bid with xx xx xxxx xxxxx ? If you bid 4H now, you are showing a strong H hand, which you do not have.

[P_Marlowe]

3NT, I hope I will find the bid, else pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mr1303]

I think Katherine wanted to change the meaning of double so that it became penalty on this hand...

Anyway, 3NT, no other choice in my opinion.

[Miron]

OK.

You convince me, 4♥ was a bad idea

---

[mcphee]

3NT a game I think offers a chance of success. 4H places you in a hopeless spot many many times. A t/o dble is just not the hand you have.

[bid_em_up]

The problem with double isn't when partner bids 4C, but what are you going to do if he bids 5C?? It DOES happen.

[whereagles]

bid_em_up, on Nov 14 2006, 02:20 PM, said:

The problem with double isn't when partner bids 4C, but what are you going to do if he bids 5C?? It DOES happen.

That's easy: pass. Pard won't bid that without considerable length.

[jillybean]

Ooops Ok X is take out, I knew that but I would like to play it penalty here

This hand just does not look like a great 3nt hand to me, Im happy with the ♠'s but I have 5 measley ♥'s AJ9 and stiff K♣. Please explain your rationale for 3nt here.

ty

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Nov 14 2006, 07:50 PM, said:

Ooops Ok X is take out, I knew that  but I would like to play it penalty here

This hand just does not look like a great 3nt hand to me, Im happy with the ♠'s but I have 5 measley ♥'s AJ9 and stiff K♣. Please explain your rationale for 3nt here.

ty

Hi,

the simple answer: 3NT is your most likely game (*),
but if you dont bid it now, partner wont do it, he is
missing the spade stopper.
From the bidding it is clear that partner has club length,
you have singelton and the 3S bidder has on average
2-3 cards, i.e. there are 8-9 cards for partner and
the other opponent, i.e. you will have a club stopper.

(*) The only alternative is 4H, but partner wont know
to bid 4H, with just 3 cards in case you double, and the
suit is not good enough to introduce the suit on your own
(direct or delayed).

With kind regards
Marlowe

[MFA]

3NT.
Bridge is easy