[jillybean]

Whoop! This is fun and very nice people, we came 4th in section A with 53.10. (very happy)

I blew our top placing with a hand where I failed to support my partner with a 3/4 fit for her major and went off bidding 2mX-4 vulnerable. I cant remember the hand, my 88 year old partner would - she remembers hands from 50 years ago.
I’ll post it if I find it and before anyone says it - yeah I might get my own blog for this stuff.


jb

[blackshoe]

Remembering hands takes hard work, but the work is well worth the effort.

[jikl]

jb,

Just do the blog here, we want to read about your adventures.

Sean

[GeeGee]

Yes, keep the reports coming, JB.

Pleased you are enjoying ftf bridge, it's the mainstay of my life. I'm lucky the people at my club are mostly very friendly.

Geoff

http://www.sobell-bridge.org.uk

[jillybean]

Today I played in an Intermediate Stratified Pairs (0-1500 MPs) game with another new partner. I wish we received hand records of some sort because I have no hope of remembering the hands, none of the boards were especially outstanding. We started off well but about the 20th board I was getting tired and my concentration slipping, 26 boards seem like a lot! How do these 80 years old do it?

The one thing I noticed today is that I need to count count count. On one board I pulled another round of trump unnecessarily and for that received a bottom board.

We finished 3rd in sectionB, 6th overall and another .4 in the mp race. I checked my acbl points today and see I have 1.57 silver points my husband & I won at a sectional, well on my way to being a junior master!
I don’t know if these points I am getting at the local club count for anything but at this rate I wont be taking a free flight anywhere soon.

The nice thing about having just 1.57 mp’s is that I am eligible to play in the ‘Future Masters Stratified Pairs’ for FREE at the Vancouver sectional this weekend.

jb

[keylime]

Hey, free bridge is pretty sweet, Beaner!

Is it at the community center right off SkyTrain at the large mall there?

[jillybean]

Oh one other thing, players in this 'intermediate' game often pass UI to their partner by explaining their partners bid before the opps ask for an explanation. Case in point today I held 5♠/5♣, my lho (pass)-pass-(1nt) I bid 2♠ my lho doubles rho pipes up and explains that double is takeout to ♣, lho visibly squirms, my partner politely reminds rho of alert procedures… everyone passes and Im happy defending 3♣.

Is LHO permitted to try to correct the auction after partner bids 3♣? With or without the UI explanation she knows they have forgotten their agreement.
After the auction she said she thought double just showed values.
(edited to make more sense )

jb


Limey - yes I think that is the same place, I will let you know after Saturday!

[Al_U_Card]

You go girl!......btw, a helpful hint. Altho there is limited space on your scorecard (I made up my own with more room for the important stuff and will e-mail you a copy if you like) try noting the bidding sequence and/or your hand shape and/or the opening lead and/or your points and/or the opps (lol's, nice couple, fat bald guy...oops too many of them for that to help etc.) These serve as memory aids for later recall as well as forcing you to slow down and concentrate on each hand before you start to play.....good luck

[blackshoe]

jillybean2, on Nov 9 2006, 01:25 AM, said:

Oh one other thing, players in this 'intermediate' game often pass UI to their partner by explaining their partners bid before the opps ask for an explanation. Case in point today I held 5♠/5♣, my lho (pass)-pass-(1nt) I bid 2♠ my lho doubles rho pipes up and explains that double is takeout to ♣, lho visibly squirms, my partner politely reminds rho of alert procedures… everyone passes and Im happy defending 3♣.

Is LHO permitted to try to correct the auction after partner bids 3♣? With or without the UI explanation she knows they have forgotten their agreement.
After the auction she said she thought double just showed values.
(edited to make more sense )

jb


Limey - yes I think that is the same place, I will let you know after Saturday!

In a "social" game, many players get away with all kinds of stuff, because their opponents are reluctant to call the director, thus possibly gaining a reputation for being a "rules lawyer" - or just a jerk. Yet it seems to me that most players who commit such infractions aren't really aware that they are infractions - and will never become aware if no one ever calls the director. In addition, most of them are happy to learn how to do it right (whatever it is). The small fraction of players who are trying to get away with something will get annoyed when you call the TD, but should you really care about them?

LHO has UI, not just from the explanation, but also from the alert, that RHO has misunderstood her bid. If that UI demonstrably suggests taking some action over 3♣, and LHO has a logical alternative to that action, then she may not take that action. The only time possession of AI would affect this is when the AI means there's no LA to the action taken.

Your RHO also has UI, btw, from LHO's squirming. In this case, though, she never got a chance to use it, so it doesn't matter.

[jillybean]

Al_U_Card, on Nov 9 2006, 08:38 AM, said:

You go girl!......btw, a helpful hint.  Altho there is limited space on your scorecard (I made up my own with more room for the important stuff and will e-mail you a copy if you like) try noting the bidding sequence and/or your hand shape and/or the opening lead and/or your points and/or the opps (lol's, nice couple, fat bald guy...oops too many of them for that to help   etc.)  These serve as memory aids for later recall as well as forcing you to slow down and concentrate on each hand before you start to play.....good luck

Thanks for the hand records – when is it acceptable to take notes during a game, after the auction is completed and before my first play so I can record the bidding and lead or should it be left until between hands?

jb

[Al_U_Card]

I put it down right away, usually while the opening leader is "guessing" what to do....lol. Whenever you can and the sooner the better as a rule. In the "score" part, since 1/2 of the space is available (you are either above or below the line, I will right in "discussion points" for later such as "C switch" or "att. signal" etc.

[jillybean]

blackshoe, on Nov 9 2006, 01:52 PM, said:

In a "social" game, many players get away with all kinds of stuff, because their opponents are reluctant to call the director, thus possibly gaining a reputation for being a "rules lawyer" - or just a jerk. Yet it seems to me that most players who commit such infractions aren't really aware that they are infractions - and will never become aware if no one ever calls the director. In addition, most of them are happy to learn how to do it right (whatever it is). The small fraction of players who are trying to get away with something will get annoyed when you call the TD, but should you really care about them?

LHO has UI, not just from the explanation, but also from the alert,  that RHO has misunderstood her bid. If that UI demonstrably suggests taking some action over 3♣, and LHO has a logical alternative to that action, then she may not take that action. The only time possession of AI would affect this is when the AI means there's no LA to the action taken.

Your RHO also has UI, btw, from LHO's squirming. In this case, though, she never got a chance to use it, so it doesn't matter.

How do you define a social game? acbl mp's were awarded in this game, like you say I think the players just arent aware of the rules or flout them.

Back to the bidding, The correct procedure here would have been for us to reserve our right to call the TD as soon as rho alerted and explained the double. If I had doubled 3♣ its likely neither opp would be able to correct the bid given the UI that had already been passed. I think here Laws 16A and 75D2 prohibits this.
Is it then "fair game" (not a move to win popularity) for me to double, is all information AI for me ? It is AI under 16C1 if the call is withdrawn but Im not sure here where the auction remains?

jb

[blackshoe]

You should take your notes after the play is completed. Otherwise, you run afoul of Law 40E2, which prohibits aids to memory.

[sdoty]

jillybean2, on Nov 9 2006, 03:58 PM, said:

when is it acceptable to take notes during a game, after the auction is completed and before my first play  so I can record the bidding and lead or should it be left until between hands?

jb

If you're fairly quick about it, it usually isn't a problem to jot down the auction once the bidding is complete and the opening lead has been made. This is when a lot of players write down the contract on their scorecard, and when declarer pauses to think. Just make sure to fold your cc over / close your notebook / etc so that you can't look at what you've written during the play -- not that you ever would, but so that the ops know that you couldn't even if you wanted to.

Any notes regarding the play of course have to wait until the hand is completed.

[Al_U_Card]

blackshoe, on Nov 9 2006, 08:36 PM, said:

You should take your notes after the play is completed. Otherwise, you run afoul of Law 40E2, which prohibits aids to memory.

Aids to memory for reference during play. You are allowed to record any information you like as long as you do not refer to it during play.

[blackshoe]

For myself, the act of writing something down helps me to remember it. So I don't write the auction down until after the play. Others may be able to write something down without any effect on their memory, I suppose, but I find it hard to believe.

[awm]

Wait a second, I thought the auction was the property of everyone at the table. Aren't you allowed to ask for a review of the bidding at any time during the play? In this case I can't imagine there being any issue with "memory aids" that help you remember the bidding.

In any case, writing something down and then discarding it doesn't serve as a memory aid. Yes the fact that you wrote it down might help you to remember, but then you could also recite the auction to yourself a couple times, or stare for five seconds at the final contract. This would also be a "memory aid" but the restriction is against specifically referring to something during bidding or play, not "doing something before the play starts" to help you remember the bidding.

[blackshoe]

Law 41B said:

Declarer or either defender may, at his first turn to play a card, require a review of the auction; this right expires when he plays a card.

So no, you can't ask for a review at any time during the play. You can ask what the final contract is, and whether it was doubled or redoubled (but not by whom).

Law 40E2 said:

A player is not entitled, during the auction and play periods, to any aids to his memory, calculation or technique.

You can certainly argue that writing down the auction on your score card and then putting it away is not an aid to memory. I'm just saying that for me, because I know it helps me, I don't do it until play is over. I do recite the bids in my mind as they're made, and try to determine what hand types they show, so I suppose I am trying to aid my memory - and it would not occur to me (or to anyone else, I hope) that doing so in that way is illegal.

You certainly can't, as I once found an opponent doing, write down the auction as it progresses, and then refer to it throughout the auction and play.

[DJNeill]

Hi,

There are two players at our club that have a habit of writing down every bid, and the opening lead. They will put their cards down, pick up the special scoresheet that has a long row for the complete auction, write the bids down as they occur, and when it gets back to them, they will put that scoresheet down in their lap, pick up their cards, make the bid, put the cards back down again, pick up the scoresheet out of their lap, and monitor the bidding. Before the opening lead they will not write down the contract, but just wait for the opening lead. Then they write it down, write down the contract, pick up their cards, and play.

I don't know why, but this is really annoying. They have done this for years and haven't gotten (as I see it) any better at bidding. One is a psychiatrist so I know it's just a habit with him :-)

Dan

[blackshoe]

IMO, you have to be nuts to be a shrink.

Since they seem to be referring to the written record during the auction, I'd rule their habit illegal.

OTOH, I'm in favor, using bidding boxes, of leaving the auction visible until asking for a review is no longer an option (i.e., after 3rd hand plays to the first trick). I suppose this could be construed as "aid to memory", but so could the use of bidding boxes (or written bidding) itself.