[xx1943]

Scoring: IMP

After 2 passes WEST (RHO) opens 4 hearts
What is your bid with this rockcrusher?

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[whereagles]

dbl, what else?

[hrothgar]

xx1943, on Sep 27 2006, 05:28 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

After 2 passes WEST (RHO) opens 4 hearts
What is your bid with this rockcrusher?

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Too strong for a double. (I don't want partner to convert)

The right bid will depend on methods, but I'd bid 4N or 5♥

[inquiry]

I am going to make a very speculative bid, as we are fiorced to guess. I am going to bid 5NT, pick a slam. I hope partner has a club honor and if missing the spade King, the hook is on. This might not work of course, but I see no sensable alternative. I suspect we may very well play 6Hx even with they have the club AK on this auction (as long as they are divided).

1) with a heart void, even though my double would be for takeout, I don't like the chance that partner might convert with yuck and some hearts

2) 4S is too much of an underbid

3) 4NT and we very well could miss our spade fit when I raise partner suit to slam

4) 5S excludes either minor as a contract....

5) 5H is ok, in general, and could serve teh same purpose...

But there is an added bit of info on 5NT missing on 5H. If I was going to play in partners minor (no spade interest), I would bid 4NT as a general takeout and raise to slam his response. 5NT therefore, seems to imply spades are still very much in the picture. As a second choice (snce 5NT is not in the list), I would bid 5H and pass partners response (that is the way to play exactly 5S)

[pclayton]

This is a great hand, but its not big enough to unilaterally commit to the 6 level. However because we are so cramped the only slam 'try' I'll be able to make is 5♥ over 4♠.

I'll just double and stay fixed.

[hatchett]

Double. No real second choice for me.

[mikeh]

inquiry, on Sep 27 2006, 09:38 AM, said:

I am going to make a very speculative bid, as we are fiorced to guess. I am going to bid 5NT, pick a slam. I hope partner has a club honor and if missing the spade King, the hook is on. This might not work of course, but I see no sensable alternative. I suspect we may very well play 6Hx even with they have the club AK on this auction (as long as they are divided).

1) with a heart void, even though my double would be for takeout, I don't like the chance that partner might convert with yuck and some hearts

2) 4S is too much of an underbid

3) 4NT and we very well could miss our spade fit when I raise partner suit to slam

4) 5S excludes either minor as a contract....

5) 5H is ok, in general, and could serve teh same purpose...

But there is an added bit of info on 5NT missing on 5H. If I was going to play in partners minor (no spade interest), I would bid 4NT as a general takeout and raise to slam his response. 5NT therefore, seems to imply spades are still very much in the picture. As a second choice (snce 5NT is not in the list), I would bid 5H and pass partners response (that is the way to play exactly 5S)

It would be far from clear to me that 5N implied ♠s. I understand your idea that with just minors you'd bid 4N and raise, but that is not the only use for the sequence (as opposed to 5N) and why should partner guess the same way I am guessing, if we have not discussed it. I do not want to play in a 4-3 minor suit slam with the long hand taking the tap. Not my idea of fun, at all.


This hand is nothing special for a double: yes, it is maximum, but why does that make it so special that we have to do something unusual?

Bear in mind that partner is a passed hand, and picture the hand we need from him for slam to be good: then give that hand to LHO... after all, are they not equivalent?

Make my ♣ KQxx and now I have a real problem... but they are not, so double says it all.

[HeartA]

I voted for 5H.

[kenberg]

Double. If by some happy event partner bids 4S I will then bid 5H which I assume asks if he actually has anything. If partner instead chooses a minor I'll pass. If he passes the double, oh well. A plus is better than a minus.

[MickyB]

Well, I'm the lone voter for 4♠...

First question, is this worth a slam-try or not? I tend to take the low road with this sort of hand, especially as I have no idea how to reach the correct strain. Having decided that, is double or 4♠ a better call? Doubles of 4M bids are often passed out; It is fairly unlikely, given my heart void and strength, that partner will pull, and even less likely that he will pull to a minor having not preempted initially. I expect 4♠ to score better, and I think it is less likely to end the auction - LHO is much more likely to compete to 5♥ over a 4♠ bid than over a double, he knows as well as I do that these doubles are often passed out for lack of anywhere better to go. I can then happily follow up with a double, and have some idea of what strain to seek slam in if partner shows any signs of life.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think I will go with X, partner may pass
and we are able to make 6, we may also
go down.
The only real alternative is 4S, but I think
this is a bit too unilateral, and it is hard to
defend, if it is wrong.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[bid_em_up]

I fail to see the problem.

Oh, wait a minute....thats because there ISN'T one!!

Double should be clear, imo.

Sometimes......preempts work. That still doesnt mean you should not make the correct call on any given hand.

So what if partner didn't preempt? Do you really expect him to preempt on xx xx xxxxxxx xx? or x xxx xx J10xxxxx? Red vs. White? Do you expect him to pull 4♠ to 5 of a minor holding any similar hand? Seriously........what planet are you from? 'Cause thats some kind of out of this world bidding. (Also, at IMP scoring, it really wont matter a whole lot that spades may "score" better than 5 of minor.)

Could 4N work out better? Could 5H work out better? or as another suggests, 5N?

Of course they could, anything is possible. But you are making unilateral & speculative decisions in choosing any of these other calls. This (to me) violates one of the main principles of good PARTNERSHIP bridge. Make the call that is most descriptive of your hand. Involve partner in the decision as to what to do, whenever you have the opportunity to do so.

Partner leaves the X in and 4H x'd makes, when you are cold for 4S or 5m? Tough cookies. Stuff happens. Move on to the next board. Over the long run, these decisions will even themselves out by making the correct call each time, more so than by trying to speculate what to do each and every time.

[inquiry]

A confident 5NT has a second way to win at this vul. They may be goaded into taking a phantom save, or it might get your partner to push to the magic grand slam if the cards are right.

And while double might land you in 4Hx when it is right, it might land you in 4Hx when it is wrong. But as others have said, anything can be right or wrong, that is why they preempt.