[kfgauss]

You hold, all red at imps in 4th seat:

AQ75 AQ2 AJ6 Q75

With opps silent, partner passes, and:

P - 1C; 2S*

*: fit jump

A. Do you think 3S now should be forcing?

B. If 3S is NF, what do you bid now?

Andy

[Edit: Our style is for 2S to promise constructive values, but not necessarily invitational values. For example, K10xxx x xxx KQxx would be fine. Also, 2S is forcing, and higher spade bids would not be fit jumps.]

[Edit 2: Actually, opener's hand was AQ75 AQ2 Q75 AJ6 and I was silly and alternated colors for everyone's viewing ease (I'm so nice).]

[Impact]

A. No, 2S must/should be forcing to 3C, so 3S simply says I have a fit for S but is NF

B. Is there an upper limit on your FSJ?
Assuming no upper limit, and noting that it is forcing to 3C, 2 reasonable strategies suggest themselves,

a) 2NT which must be forcing having regard to first criterion/assumption which, by corollary, enables you to set 3S forcing after he bids the expected 3C. If he makes any stronger sounding bid, your stratospheric ride is ensured... ;

depending on your agreement, I assume a new suit by opener is a cue agreeing C as trumps so a jump (other than to 4S) would be either a cue agreeing partner's last bd suit (S) or a splinter....and that depends on your agreements.

For that reason alone I would favour strategy a) - and it looks right to have the lead come up to your hand.

[kenrexford]

My personal approach is to use Flag Bids after a Fit Jump. Thus:

2NT would suggest a strain, NF
3C to play
3D (other minor) agrees clubs, forcing
3H (other major) agrees spades, forcing
3S is NF but pushy
3NT is natural

The 3H call asks for a stiff...

[FrancesHinden]

If 2S is forcing, then 3S is non-forcing.

I can't see a reason to bid 2NT to play: if you don't have an 8-card spade fit you have an 8-card club fit.

On your sample hand if I haven't had any detailed conversations with my partner I would simply raise to 4S. It would be nice to set spades as trumps in some forcing way and see what partner volunteers, but it's risky.

Yes, we have a load of high cards, but give partner a very pure maximum hand:

Kxxxx
xx
xx
AKxx

and slam is on the heart finesse

[inquiry]

I can not imagine tha I would play 3♠ as being forcing, but rather it should be invitational, you could play it as forcing of course, it is dependent upon your agreement. However, if 3♠ is forcing and if 2♠ is forcing something is horribly wrong, you need a way to invite in spades. For that matter, since partner is a passed hand, it is not all that clear 2♠ should be forcing, especially after a 3rd seat opening bid (this problem was a fourth seat opening bid). Fit jumps by unpassed hand, of course, are forcing to the next higher level of the "fitted suited" (in this case clubs).

After the fit jump, a few things are clear... opener rebids of 3♣ is not forcing, and openers rebid of a red suit is forcing, opener's rebid of 4♠ is signoff. You have to decide for yourself if openers 2NT rebid is artificial or natural here. I use it as artificial, range check value ask (maynot be optimal at MP, but good treatment at imps). Partner bid 3♣ on minimums and 5224 distribution, rebids a red suit with shortness in that suit and minimums, splinters to 4 of a red suit with shortness in bid suit and maximum (in general, partner will not have VALUES in a red suit for the "pure" fit jump, as his values should be in the black suits). A 3♠ by passed hand responder over 2NT shows 5-2-2-4 and maximum. If I follow 2NT with 3♠ that is forcing. A direct 3♠ by is invitational.

If I played this as a fit jump, I would promise 5 spades (with six I would have opened weak two), four plus clubs, and a good ODR ratio with values in the black suits.

So on Frances hand, the bidding would be...

P   - 1C
2S - 2NT
3S - 4S
Pass

(I fought the law logic if you like... partners 10-11 working points, our 16 working points is a total of 26-27 with short suit total of 4. The Lawrence book suggest 11 tricks. Of course, as Frances pointed out, if the heart hook is on, 12 tricks would be available, but then your working total would two more, or 28/29. At least here you have a good estimate of partners hand, so if you wanted to try for slam, you would be on solid ground. On this auction, after 3♠, obviously opener's 4♣ is forcing and you should play that as blackwood).

Change responder too... KTxxx x xxx AJxx, the bidding would be...
P   - 1C
2S - 2NT
3H - 4S
Pass

Change responder too... KTxxx x xxx AKxx
P   - 1C
2S - 2NT
4H - 4NT
5H - 7C (1H, 2H ruff, 5S, 1D, 4C)
Pass

[FrancesHinden]

Your last hand doesn't work, as opener only has 3 clubs.
Even if opener had 4 clubs (AQxx AQx AJ Qxxx) 7 clubs often needs spades 2-2 and always needs clubs 3-2 (spade lead, HA, H ruff, DA, H ruff, AK Of clubs... how do I get to hand to draw the last trump?) To make 7C good you need all the club pips so you ahve AK10x opposite QJ9x say and can take the second heart ruff high and still get back to hand.

[inquiry]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 6 2006, 09:05 AM, said:

Your last hand doesn't work, as opener only has 3 clubs.
Even if opener had 4 clubs (AQxx AQx AJ Qxxx) 7 clubs often needs spades 2-2 and always needs clubs 3-2 (spade lead, HA, H ruff, DA, H ruff, AK Of clubs... how do I get to hand to draw the last trump?) To make 7C good you need all the club pips so you ahve AK10x opposite QJ9x say and can take the second heart ruff high and still get back to hand.

Ah.. thanks, I forgot the openers hand... :-(

[kfgauss]

Silly me, I swapped clubs and diamonds... opener's hand was in fact:

AQxx AQx Qxx AJx.

This makes slam prospects a bit better, with K10xxx xx x KQxxx making for a cold slam, for example.

I do like the 2NT asking suggestion, but I don't really think 2S denies 6 spades (I don't want to feel obligated to open a weak 2 for fear of losing my ability to fit jump, but maybe this is the sort of thing that depends on your weak 2 style).

Andy