[pbleighton]

IMP pairs, all vul.

4C-?

You have AJ-A9xx-AK10xxx-K. Pd has xxxx-KQ10xx-QJx-x.

Red slams are cold. 3 out of 16 bid slam (all 6H). We were in 4H, -1.0 IMP. I have no regrets, but...

Would you have done better at the table?

Peter

[Free]

The only way I see things happen:

4♣ - 4♦ - pass? - 4♥
pass - 5♥ - pass - 6♥

but I'm not convinced by my auction

[flytoox]

I think we can. Over 4C I double. If pd bid 4S, I bid 5D. If pd bid 4H then you can find 6H. I dont think overcalling 4D will come to my mind.

[whereagles]

Very tough to bid it with confidence. I'd be satisfied to reach 4♥. I think it takes a flier to reach it.

[pbleighton]

"I double. If pd bid 4S, I bid 5D. "

That's what I did.

"If pd bid 4H then you can find 6H."

Ah, there's the rub. You have forced pd to bid, your CK is very likely worthless (it was), and even 4H is tough opposite the wrong dummy.

Would you bid 5H?

Peter

[mike777]

4d over 4clubs I am a big fan of bidding my longests suits in these jammed auctions, many disagree.

[joshs]

I would never get close. My auction is:
4C -x-4H-All Pass
Plus good, minus bad....

[flytoox]

pbleighton, on Jun 21 2006, 12:57 PM, said:

"I double. If pd bid 4S, I bid 5D. "

That's what I did.

"If pd bid 4H then you can find 6H."

Ah, there's the rub. You have forced pd to bid, your CK is very likely worthless (it was), and even 4H is tough opposite the wrong dummy.

Would you bid 5H?

Peter

I think I will bid 5C over 4H. 5H over 4H asks pd to bid on if he has club control. That is not my concern here.

HOwever I saw the hand, so I cannot claim this is unbiased.

Btw, I wouldnot worry too much if we miss this slam after opp's preempt.

[the hog]

I would X. Quite a number of players now play that 4D over 4C is non leaping Leaping Michaels, in other words, D and a 5+ Major. This is a useful treatment if you are prepared to overbid with 5D on a D hand.

[Winstonm]

I don't see anyway to reach this unless someone takes a "position". If the big hand bids 4D, there is more of a chance as now the "pull" to 4H allows a cue bid, however 4D might be considered somewhat of an underbid. The problem with double is that when partner bids 4H you are poorly placed to continue as his heart suit could be Qxxx. Over double, the heart hand has to take the "position" and take charge.

I wouldn't fault anyone for bidding these hands either way, the more conservative type will settle for 4D, believing that bidding at this level already shows a pretty good hand - the doublers are just as right in their methods, as they are allowed to compete more fiercely with less hand and distributional values.

I'd chalk it up as "one of those deals" and go on to the next hand. I've found that many times in K.O. events that the result of a hand like this "feels" like a loss but turns out to be a push so the best thing to do is put it aside and concentrate fully on the next hand.

Winston

[jdeegan]

I think my auction would go (assuming opponents do not bid anymore):

4♣-4♦-P-5♦
P-????
where ????=pass most of the time.

On some reflection, partner might have bid 5♣ to show an extra good diamond raise. That will do it for me:

4♣-4♦-P-5♣
P-6♦

One lesson to be considered here is the folly of making a take out double at the four level without spades. It works OK some of the time, but the room for a BAD accident is really there, and you don't need it. Unless, of course, you think you need a system that allows you to reach 6♥ instead of 6♦ after a 4♣ preempt. There ain't no such system.

[pbleighton]

"One lesson to be considered here is the folly of making a take out double at the four level without spades."

It's fine with this hand, as it is good enough to bid 5D over 4S.

Peter

[mike777]

pbleighton, on Jun 22 2006, 05:48 PM, said:

"One lesson to be considered here is the folly of making a take out double at the four level without spades."

It's fine with this hand, as it is good enough to bid 5D over 4S.

Peter

Yes that is the main debate on this hand it seems, bid your longest suit and try for slam and risk playing 4D or x and rebid 5d over 4s and settle for game...not easy and good points on both sides of the issue. I just do not think either side has brought any more clarity to the discusion yet.....

[cf_John0]

Dbl 4♣,then rebid 5♣ for 4♥,then 6♥,

The hand is good enough for dbl-then-rebid,I think.