[Wackojack]

Scoring: MP

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1♠ 2♥ pass pass
dbl pass 3♣ pass
3♠ pass ?

I think on reflection that I got this one totally wrong. What would you bid? What type of hand is partner showing?

[paulg]

I'd raise to 4♠ as I think partner has a hand that is worth a jump rebid.

p

[luke warm]

i think partner's double could almost be taken as a 'help suit' double, so i think he has solid spades with club support... i'd raise to 4♠ also

[cherdano]

Why didn't partner bid 3♠ directly? I suppose he just wanted to give me the chance to make a penalty pass.

I am raising, but I am not 100% sure it's right.

Arend

[kenberg]

Another vote for 4S. Granted, it could go wrong. Whatever partner has, he was supposed to anticipate that I might bid 3C over his double, which means he has a hand willing to go to 3S without knowing I have anything. I have something, both help in spades and concentrated values in clubs as a source of tricks. So I bid 4S.

I realize some folks say that opener more or less must reopen with a double in case third hand has a penalty pass. I have always thought it more realistic to allow opener to rebid 2S with a minimum plus spade length, and to even pass it out with a minimum and not much defense. It makes continuations much easier if when opener acts he actually has something to offer. Here I expect spade length and some values. We should have 10 tricks available, and although there is significant danger that they will l take four tricks first I'm bidding.

[paulg]

kenberg, on May 20 2006, 12:45 PM, said:

I realize some folks say that opener more or less must reopen with a double in case third hand has a penalty pass. I have always thought it more realistic to allow opener to rebid 2S with a minimum plus spade length, and to even pass it out with a minimum and not much defense. It makes continuations much easier if when opener acts he actually has something to offer.

I believe that opener has to do something with heart shortage and should not be passing it out just because he has a 5233 minimum (if that bad then don't open it).

However, when partner is doubling for our penalty pass, he should be passing 3♣ with minimums. Weak hands with long spades can protect with 2♠.

More interesting is what strength a 3♦ bid over 3♣ shows? Is this a weak 5=2=4=2 hand, or a hand too strong for 3♦ originally?

Paul

[kenberg]

cardsharp, on May 20 2006, 09:25 AM, said:

kenberg, on May 20 2006, 12:45 PM, said:

I realize some folks say that opener more or less must reopen with a double in case third hand has a penalty pass. I have always thought it more realistic to allow opener to rebid 2S with a minimum plus spade length, and to even pass it out with a minimum and not much defense. It makes continuations much easier if when opener acts he actually has something to offer.

I believe that opener has to do something with heart shortage and should not be passing it out just because he has a 5233 minimum (if that bad then don't open it).

However, when partner is doubling for our penalty pass, he should be passing 3♣ with minimums. Weak hands with long spades can protect with 2♠.

More interesting is what strength a 3♦ bid over 3♣ shows? Is this a weak 5=2=4=2 hand, or a hand too strong for 3♦ originally?

Paul

I pretty much agree. What I meant, but probably wasn't too clear about, was that reopening doubles often don't find partner with a penalty pass and so if opener can't stand to hear partner bid 3m then he should consider not doubling. Usually with short hearts he will not have a problem. So I take this auction to suggest values. It still doesn't make 4S clearcut (to me) but it is my call.

As near as I can recall, I have never discussed with any partner the difference between 3D right away (instead of the reopening X) and the conversion of 3C to 3D after the X. As a guess, it seems an immediate 3D is likely 5-5, bidding more on shape than on high cards, since playing 2HX would be unappealing with that holding. Doubling and then pulling seems to me to be quite strong and shapely since so far partner has declined to make a negative double and has pulled the X to clubs. He is not likely to have both diamonds and values.

Ken

[mike777]

I think any new suit rebid or rebid of a suit after reopening with an x is very strong by opener. Not weak

[Wackojack]

Scoring: MP

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This was my partner's (North) hand. And the bidding:
1♠ 2♥ pass pass
dbl pass3♣ pass
3♠ pass 4♣ pass
5♣pass pass pass

Yes my 4♣ bid was bad. However with such good spades what are pros and cons for (a) a direct 3♠ reopening and b double followed by 3♠? Is a reopening double just a courtesy bid in case I can make a penalty pass?

I don't think partner's 5♣ bid is right since this bid expects no club losers when there are 2 likely heart losers. So opposite even a small singleton spade, play in 4♠ is likely to succeed outscoring 5♣. However, thats another story and I should have made it easy for her.

btw the club finesse worked so contract made but of course still a poor MP score.

[kenberg]

I guess most responders are raising 3S to 4S and you seem to agree in retrospect. As to what your partner might have done over the table call of 4C it seems to me that 4H has merit. Assuming that 3S was strong but passable it hardly seems right for 4H now to be a slam try in clubs. More likely it's a last try at playing in spades rather than clubs. The logic would be something like
3S: I can't quite force game on my own.
4C: well, I do have some decent clubs.
4H: OK, I guess I'll take a shot at game, either 4S or 5C, you choose.

I think the 3S bid really can't be forcing, since with long spades and a hand that is game forcing opposite a potential nothing I would expect the opening to be 2C. Once 3S is not forcing, the above logic seems right. Since your hand still has not really shown much of anything (I imagine you might bid the same way with KQxxxxx of clubs and no spades) any bid over 4C has risk, but it seems 4H gives the best shot of reaching a makeable game if one exists.

But just shooting 4S also seems reasonable to me, especially at matchpoints. 5C seems wrong for the reasons you give. Hands can be constructed of course where it is right, but it seems unlikely.

[pclayton]

As I was reading this thread, I thought pard had a strong 6232. With a strong 5242 pard rebids 3D over 3C.

I'd bid 4S, but I am worried more about missing a slam than making 4S.