[mr1303]

Scoring: IMP

---

Partner opens 2♠, showing a weak hand with 5♠ and a 4 card or longer minor. RHO passes. What do you try now?

LHO will be bidding something here....

[FrancesHinden]

We're at red. Not that desperate to buy the hand.
I've given up being clever on these hands. I'll just bid 4S and worry next round.

[Echognome]

I will bid the pedestrian 4♠. I don't see why this will be that easy for LHO to bid. So he has short spades. So did RHO. I don't really care what p's minor is and it's not that likely that LHO is that shapely 2-suited. I am more worried about what happens when it comes back to me. But guessing at bidding anything but 4♠ now leaves me worse off (IMO).

[whereagles]

If you wanna get clever, bid 3♥. That has the same preemptive effect of 3♠ and might 'dissuade' LHO off bidding hearts.

At table I suspect I'd bid 4♠, though.

[MickyB]

I can't see any way to involve partner in the 5 level decision, so just bid 4♠ and hope you buy it. The more interesting question comes on the next round.

[foo]

♠KQJT9x♥QJ♦xxx♣Ax

"Partner opens 2S, showing a weak hand with 5♠ and a 4+m. RHO passes. What do you try now?"

It is far from clear that We should want to buy this hand.
Just how "weak" is 2S? Obviously GOP's S suit is poor, Axxxx at best, so they must have outside values. In addition we "know" GOP has 3-H.

My job with this hand is to jam the auction to the maximum safe level in one bid and then shut up. My hand has 6-7 losers as things stand, so it is imperative that I count likely cover cards in GOP's hand as well as likely values between Us vs. Them.

Since we are at Unfavorable:
If They do not rate to have a game, bid 3S or even pass (!) depending on how many cover cards GOP is likely to hold. -200 vs air is a bad score no matter what the form of scoring.

If They rate to have a game and not a slam, We can't risk going more than -2 X'ed; and even a reasonably large risk of -2 X'ed is to be avoided.

If They rate to have a slam, then We can't risk going more than -3 X'ed.


Just blindly bidding 4S on this board rates to be a disaster for Us.
Sorry the answer isn't simple, but it really does depend on what GOP is likely to hold.

[pclayton]

I'm assuming 2S is some sort of Dutch 2 in the 5 to 10 range. If I'm wrong, a lot of what I'm saying is off-base.

I don't agree with a lot of the posters so far. We are at adverse vul. and pard has opened UTG. I expect a 5-5 or a 5-4 with near max values. Further, we know pard has ATxxx at best, so he's odds-on to hold a 5-5 or better. The worst hand I can imagine is ATxxx xx xx KQxx. Reverse the minors and we have to avoid a C lead.
Hands like ATxxx x xx QJxxx and ATxxx xxx void Qxxxx are excellent games and anything more makes us gin. Further, either of these hands raise the possibility of a double game swing.

1303's concern about buying the hand is very valid.

At the table, I would hope I'd have the presence to be aware of this, but fear I'd just bash 4S.

The opps have 18-22 between them and both are short in spades. RHO didn't take a call so I'm placing at least 1/2 the deck with LHO.

Pass is possible, but I expect LHO will reopen with a double. RHO tries something at the 3 level and I compete with 3S. I fear that it will now proceed p-p-p since both are playing their pds for a spade stack, esp. LHO.

I will try 3S and expect a double from LHO or a balancing dbl from RHO. When I further compete with 4S, it sounds like I'm trying to push them to 5 which I hope to beat.

I think this is a sensible strategy and superior to bashing 4S directly.

[jdonn]

I like that strategy. We have enough values that they are unlikely to bid 5 of something as long as we don't push them there too fast.

[david_c]

Oh dear, I was Mark's partner here; I should warn you that I don't really have my 2♠ bid

Agree with pclayton that 4♠ is quite likely to be making. At this vulnerability with a known weak spade suit, you can probably play me for 5-5 shape. So there is every reason to want to buy the hand.

[luis]

3♣ spades may not run and I want pd to lead a club if we get overbid. After pd bids something I will bid 4♠

Luis

[FrancesHinden]

pclayton, on May 17 2006, 05:10 PM, said:

I will try 3S and expect a double from LHO or a balancing dbl from RHO. When I further compete with 4S, it sounds like I'm trying to push them to 5 which I hope to beat.

I think this is a sensible strategy and superior to bashing 4S directly.

I absolutely understand and sympathise with this strategy.
The only two times I have tried it on this auction I ended up +170 and a game swing out. I've decided not to do it any more.

[joshs]

How do you invite game in spades in your methods? A semi-psychic game try, followed by being pushed into 4S (if the opps enter the auction) might prevent the opps from saving....

[foo]

pclayton has a point. I neglected to include the possibility that We could have a Game in the possibilities of my post.

I stand by my fundamental point that what is best to do with this hand depends entirely on what hands GOP is likely to have opened 2S with here.

EDIT: Oh, and a Phantom Save in 4S when We are unfavorable does not rate to get Us a good score even if We are not X'ed. Regardless of the form of scoring.

Responder has a heavy responsibility on this board.

[Kalvan14]

Over a 2M Mujderberg (or eq.) the classic game try is 3♦.
However, I'd expect that pard has a max. hand to open 2♠ at adverse vul and 1st hand. I'd not be too cute, and will bid 4♠

[Codo]

I am with Frances, I tried to be cute on this hand and failed.

But otoh, West has short Spades, he will bid on, as a sac. against a making game or because he thinks, that we robbed this hand.

So, I will try to be cute one more time and pass, hoping to raise Spades later slowly.

I will accept the possible +170 because I am too afraid, that I make a wrong and expensive descission after my 4 Spade bid and 5 Heart from the opps is passed around to me...

[mr1303]

Well, at the table, I tried the traditional 4♠. This proceeded:

2♠ P 4♠ X
P 4NT

4NT was 2 places to play, X was take-out.

What now? If you pass, it goes:

4NT P 5D P
P ?

Do you do anything this time?

[P_Marlowe]

mr1303, on May 18 2006, 03:36 AM, said:

Well, at the table, I tried the traditional 4♠. This proceeded:

2♠ P 4♠ X
P 4NT

4NT was 2 places to play, X was take-out.

What now? If you pass, it goes:

4NT P 5D P
P ?

Do you do anything this time?

How about double?

Do you believe, that we can make 4S?
... Yes
Do you believe their contract on the 5 level
will most often fail?
... Yes

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

mr1303, on May 18 2006, 12:36 AM, said:

Well, at the table, I tried the traditional 4♠. This proceeded:

2♠ P 4♠ X
P 4NT

4NT was 2 places to play, X was take-out.

What now? If you pass, it goes:

4NT P 5D P
P ?

Do you do anything this time?

One thing I know is that the intelligent 4♠ bidders (i.e., Frances and co.) will 'stay fixed' if the opponents take a push to 5.

If your hand evaluation says that 4♠ is possible; but not cold (I don't agree), then you take your medicine and you don't bid 5♠. There are some hands that justify 5 over 5, but this trump-poor 6=2=3=2 isn't one of them.

As for doubling 5 of a red suit? If you reconstruct a lot of possible hands for pard, its probably OK to do, but it sure looks funny holding 6♠'s LOL

[Echognome]

I would pass at the 5 level. I took my guess with 4♠. Maybe 4♠ wasn't making at the opponents are phantoming. Who knows?

I personally think it's too close to double.

I hope Phil was referring to me among others in the "& co" bit.