[pigpenz]

auction:
4♠ pass pass 4NT
pass YOU!

imps nv vs nv

Scoring: IMP

---

curious as to what most people would do here to protect against partner being 5-5 in minors. I myself bid 5♦.

[luke warm]

i'd bid 5♦ also

[jillybean]

I have to bid, 5♦ wtp?

[kenberg]

It's my understanding that there are two distinct ways of playing the 4NT bid. As I like to play it, 4S-X is a good hand with tolerance for all suits that partner might choose to pull to, and 4NT is definitely a two-suiter (any two), so of course I bid 5D since indeed partner could have the minors with nothing inn hearts. Others play that 4S-X is for penalties and does not promise tolerance for a pull. Those folks generally play 4NT as being a general TO, presumably ready for any response. In that case I bid 5H.

For many years, people have marked their card as TO through 4H. I would take that to mean they favor the second approach. I think that TO through 4S is gaing favor, and that implies the first approach. TO isn't exactly right, since it is often passed. But it implies tolerance for any pull.

Playing pick-up, if that's the issue, I would bid 5H. It's a crapshoot.

Ken

[pclayton]

5♦; should imply heart support if pard has ♣/♥.

[luke warm]

kenberg, on May 13 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

Playing pick-up, if that's the issue, I would bid 5H. It's a crapshoot.

Ken

well, if 4nt implied 2 suits, and if they are the minors, doesn't 5♥ defeat the purpose? as phil said, if he has clubs and hearts, he'll bid 5♥ over 5♦... maybe i'm wrong, but i really don't see any option

[inquiry]

5♦ is automatic.

[kenberg]

luke warm, on May 13 2006, 09:16 PM, said:

kenberg, on May 13 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

Playing pick-up, if that's the issue, I would bid 5H. It's a crapshoot.

Ken

well, if 4nt implied 2 suits, and if they are the minors, doesn't 5♥ defeat the purpose? as phil said, if he has clubs and hearts, he'll bid 5♥ over 5♦... maybe i'm wrong, but i really don't see any option

Yes. If 4NT implies two suits, 5D is clear. What I thought I was making clear is that some people use 4NT to show a two-suiter, some people use 4NT as a general TO. In the latter case I bid 5H.

If you look at the card of many people, it will say that doubles are for TO through 4H. If it is so marked, then the doube of 4H (TO) is treated differently than the double of 4S (not TO). In both cases the X will often be left in, but those who play the double as TO will, naturally, take it out more often. You need, or at least might want, a take out bid, or rather a bid that partner can trust shows at least some sort of tolerance for all suits. If 4S-X does not show that tolerance, than, for many people, 4S-4NT does. In that case, 5H is by far the best call.

If you are convinced that everyone (or that all reasonable people) play 4S-4NT as two-suited, then sure, you bid 4D. In my experience, there are two distinct ways of playing 4S-4NT, and if I know which way my partner does it, I will respond correctly. If 4NT can be based on, say, 1-4-3-5 then I would not expect him to correct 5D to 5H, as he thinks diamonds is my longest suit. If instead 4N shows a two-suiter (so he cannot bid 4N with 1-4-3-5) then I suppose it is C-D but if by some chance it is C-H he will certainly correct.

Those who think there is only one acceptable meaning for 4S-4NT will have stopped reading this long before now.

Ken

[foo]

Many good pairs define X's as T/O through 4H and penalty oriented with convertable values from 4S higher.

For those pairs, 4N is for T/O.

Playing SA or 2/1 GF with most expert partners w/o much discussion, I'd assume this agreement.

4H under those circumstance is automatic.

If playing with an non-expert partner who I was not sure of, I'd assume 4N was for the minors and bid 5D.


However things turn out, GOP and I are making sure we are on the same wavelength ASAP after this hand!

[Free]

5♦, now partner knows I'm good for ♦ and ♥...

[mikeh]

5♦.

In my view, current expert thinking is that this 4N, if undiscussed, is an unspecified 2-suiter, thus advancer's duty is to bid the cheapest suit in which he is happy to play should that suit be one of held by partner.