[kfgauss]

BAM, red vs white. In 4th seat you hold:

2 Q86543 2 QJ532

The bidding goes:

1C* P 1D** ?

1C: precision, 16+ (17+ bal)
1D: negative

You play suction. 1NT = two untouching suits (C+H or D+S). If you want to show hearts only, you can do that with double = H or S+C (or 2D, same meaning).

What's your call?

If you pass over 1C-1D, would you bid if you were in 2nd seat and RHO had opened 1C? (Same bids and meanings, but 1D replaces double.)

[Edit: I'll preemptively request that you not tell me about your favorite methods here and instead work within the given constrants. If your call would be qualitatively different playing your methods, feel free to mention that to contrast with your call playing these methods, though.]

[Edit: Yes, 2NT is available as C+H or D+S as well.]

[Blofeld]

Would 2NT still be two nontouching suits?

If so, I'd like to bid that.

I'd be more inclined to show just hearts if I had some direct natural preemptive bid. Bidding some number of diamonds makes it rather too easy for them to double.

[1eyedjack]

System bid.
Colours are for children.

[P_Marlowe]

1NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

1NT for me. 6 - 5 stay alive. At different colours 2NT would be an option.

[Codo]

1 NT is not enough, so I bid 2 NT. If this is a system bid with a different meaning, I bid 3 NT. Main point: With no points and nice distribution, I will bid as high as possible as quick as possible.

[cherdano]

Hmm, I am the only passer so far. Why should I tell opps my distribution when I have such bad suits and no good chance to buy the contract? Even 2-level X'd is not unlikely to be a disaster.

Arend

[Codo]

Your partnership has at most 10 + 4= 14 HCps, maybe less. So passing gives them the ability to use their precision system to reach the perfect contract of 6 Spade.
They surely now, that 5 Spade is not enough, but 7 won`t make.
You applaude and write down - 1430, next hand.

The bidders hope to see a bidding like:

1 Club pass 1 Diamond 2 NT
3 Spade 5 Club ????

Worst case:
1 Club pass 1 Diamond 2 NT
X 3 Club X all pass -4 and pd has some 10 HCPs, no real fit, but nothing is makable from opps., despite their 26 HCPs.

In another threat, I wrote, that I don´t use these two suiters bid so often any more. But I htink, in this hand, the possible win is much more likely then the possible lost.

[cherdano]

Codo, on May 8 2006, 02:01 PM, said:

Your partnership has at most 10 + 4= 14 HCps, maybe less. So passing gives them the ability to use their precision system to reach the perfect contract of 6 Spade.
They surely now, that 5 Spade is not enough, but 7 won`t make.
You applaude and write down - 1430, next hand.

The bidders hope to see a bidding like:

1 Club pass 1 Diamond 2 NT
3 Spade 5 Club ????

Worst case:
1 Club pass 1 Diamond 2 NT
X 3 Club X all pass -4 and pd has some 10 HCPs, no real fit, but nothing is makable from opps., despite their 26 HCPs.

In another threat, I wrote, that I don´t use these two suiters bid so often any more. But I htink, in this hand, the possible win is much more likely then the possible lost.

Did you see the vulnerability? 6♠ making isn't -1430 at unfavourable last time I checked. In fact, it's better than 3♣X-4.
Anyway, I hope for 6♠-1 instead of 5♠= (warned of bad breaks). Or 6♠-1 instead of 6♠= (guessed right from my bidding).

Of course we all know good things can happen by bidding or passing. My guess is that with the bad suits, bidding doesn't gain frequently enough.

Arend

[Codo]

Arend,

I red the vul. wrong. I took red vs. white as wrote in the bidding, so from openers point of view. This is cleary wrong, so I can see much more downsides in bidding then passing now.

But I still bid 2 NT, but surely with much less convidence.

[bid_em_up]

I think since you have decided to play suction over precision, that this is exactly the hand it was designed for and you bid according to your methods. You hand is expected to be weak, and two suited, and thats exactly what you have.

To bid 2N is anti-systemic (not to mention the unfavorable vul). Your partnership decided to use this method, to show this hand. Bid accordingly. Anything else is a violation of partnership trust, imo.

As always, jmoo.

[mcphee]

If 2NT is what I have to choose becuase of methods, I do it. Rahter than considering the digit I may inflict upon us, I'll take the positive ouetlook and think I may be able to make game.

[1eyedjack]

cherdano, on May 8 2006, 12:20 PM, said:

Hmm, I am the only passer so far. Why should I tell opps my distribution when I have such bad suits and no good chance to buy the contract? Even 2-level X'd is not unlikely to be a disaster.

Arend

Passing may of course be right. But "no good chance to buy the contract"? Does advancer not have a say in that decision?

There is (in my view) one significant minus point to bidding - you don't succeed in telling partner which suits you hold. I suppose he has a reasonable chance of guessing, but is unlikely to barrage too much of the bidding, just in case he is wrong.

[zasanya]

Codo, on May 8 2006, 07:01 AM, said:

Your partnership has at most 10 + 4= 14  HCps, maybe less.

If your RHO opens a precision/strong ♣,then its a good idea to pass with opening hand .If your LHO bids anything other than 1♦ then they have minimum 24 points and your restraint will mislead the declarer while placing high cards.If LHO bids 1♦the opener will bid naturally and now you can take appropriate action conveying P that you have an opening hand.On the other hand if you have a weak shapely hand then you bid immediately to disturb their relays and asking bids.
Applying this scheme to the original post Partners pass only indicates he doesnt have a weak shapely hand.Your side then can have much more than 14.
In the given hand over 1♦ you must bid to show your weak shapely hand .This time with 3 intentions 1)Disrupt their relay.2)Try to buy the contract.3)Help P to make the opening lead.

[cherdano]

1eyedjack, on May 8 2006, 03:51 PM, said:

cherdano, on May 8 2006, 12:20 PM, said:

Hmm, I am the only passer so far. Why should I tell opps my distribution when I have such bad suits and no good chance to buy the contract? Even 2-level X'd is not unlikely to be a disaster.

Arend

Passing may of course be right. But "no good chance to buy the contract"? Does advancer not have a say in that decision?

Well, if we have a fit, opponents likely have a fit in a higher-ranking suit. They are very likely to have the substantial majority of hcp. You will (almost) never bid to save at this vulnerability.

So yes, I do think we won't buy the contract (unless the opponents want us to, doubled). If you bid, then only to give them less space to find the best contract, and the question is if this will make a difference often enough to make up for the case where
1. they double you successfully,
2. they avoid a bad contract by knowing about bad breaks,
3. they correctly guess in the play due to knowing your and partner's shape.

Maybe partly I am passing because I don't believe as much as others in the guaranteed success of relay-bidding (Especially if it doesn't include asking bids for opponents' shapes, which you would provide by bidding suction here )

Arend

[Al_U_Card]

Whatever you choose, pard will look at his hand, realize that you have "no" points and then take the appropriate action. Just make your system bid that shows your holding and let pard take it from there.

[mr1303]

1NT for me. My style over their 1C is to only bid with something that might be of genuine help. In other words, I won't bid on

xxxx
xxxx
xx
xxx

calling my hand "Weak with both majors".

There are plenty of those who would do though.

[Free]

2NT, not everyday I have a 6-5...

[awm]

I like 1NT. This could even be our hand, and I don't feel that likely to go for a number at the two-level. This bid prevents opener from making a 1NT call with the typical balanced minimum, and I'd be surprised if we can't make something at the two-level (or one down if we're unlucky). On the off chance that we actually have a huge heart (or club) fit I'll be glad I bid.

On the other hand, 2NT seems like a stretch. The opponents don't have to have a game here (responder made a negative bid after all) and three of a suit is a lot more likely to be doubled than two of a suit (and it goes down one more at unfavorable).