[Orla]

I decided to bring a discussion on No-Trump bids over to this string.

I have learned there are 2 criteria for opening a No-Trump hand:
1.
A set number of HCP - some play 12-14, some 15-17 or 16-18. Once you have decided on your point range it should never change.
2.
A  balanced hand - NO voids or singletons and no more than 1 doubleton.

I guess the definition of "balanced" could be stretched, but by how much? What about 5-card suits? Is there a difference between 5 cards in a major or minor? (I bid NT with 5-card minors but not majors)

Bidding 1 of a suit promises anything from 12-20(ish) points, including those points in a NT range.

Bidding 1NT is the most descriptive bid because of its very restrictions.

If, for example, someone ignores the restrictions, and defends the bid by saying: "I wanted to show my points". I always feel let down, because I think I will not be able to trust my Partner's bids.

What is the general consensus? Should one keep NT bids absolutely within their boundries, or is it ok to stretch them? I say "no" to stretching.  ;D

Orla

[inquiry]

Hi Orla....

1. Notrump range should never change.....

Plenty of people play variable range 1NT's. For instance playing weak notrump not vul, or strong notrump vul. I have seen people play very weak NT 1st and 2nd seat (9-12), and strong notrump 3rd and 4th seat. There are sound reasons for each of these... although when I play weak notrump, I play weak notrump regardless of vul. I have also observed a lot of 14 hcp notrump opening bids in the fourth seat by players with 15-17 range.  BTW, maybe the best range for "strong" notrump is one you didn't mention, 14-16, maybe someone would like to discuss the reasons why.

2. Short suits. I agree. You should not open 1NT with singleton or voids. I have observed several gold stars in teh bbo open 1NT with singleton K or A in a suit. Justice was served each time when they got a bad result. Even more frequent, I have seen people open 2NT with 4-4-4-1 hands with singleton honor. I don't agree at all with this strategy.  I will open 1NT however with two doubletons... having done so with 6-3-2-2 and 5-4-2-2 hands from time to time. And yes, as I have said in plenty of other threads here on the forum, I will open 1NT with a five card major.

Now to the concept of stretching the range of 1NT. I already mentioned people opening a point light in 4th seat. This is most often an attempt to take advantage of the preemptive nature of the 1NT opening bid. I actually make adjustments to my point count range. There are some 14 hcp hands with a five card suit that I consider good enough to open 1NT on even playing 15-17 hcp range. But I don't consider such hands a stretch, I think they are worth more than 14.  Likewise a hand with 17 hcp and a good five card suit and a couple of extra ten's or 98's I consider too strong for 1NT, and treat as if they have 18.

[Orla]

While I am at it - the promised whammy for Ben. (This is a message I posted over at Yahoo,)

Some things have been causing me problems with No Trump bids, especially since playing Weak NT. I am asking this rather as a standard question, not as "partnership agreement".

1. Opening NT  - Over Opp's interference.
a.
If Opp's interfere, whether it be a double or a suit, should ALL conventions be OFF?
b.
If Opp's bid 2C and you were planning to bid Stayman, do you double to imply Stayman?
c.
If you have points, 2 4-card major suits but no stoppers in Opp's suit, what do you bid? If you doubled Opp's suit, would the NT opener know it was for take-out?

========================================

2. Stayman/Transfers:
a.
I have heard of different types of Stayman: Forcing/non forcing, Puppet? Could someone explain them?
b.
If you are playing transfers, is a 2S bid always a minor transfer? To what suit? Or is it Stayman? Gosh, I am mixing things up now, I think.
c.
When people talk about "Jacoby" are they talking about just plain transfers or is it more?

========================================

3. Overcalling NT:
a.
Is it always so, that when P bids 1NT, as an overcall, ALL conventions are ON? Happened to me last week and I didn't "recognize" 2C as Stayman  :

========================================

4. Doubling NT,
a.
If P doubles Opp's NT is this always for penalties?(not counting NT defence conventions where a double means something in particular.)
b.
So, if you have a balanced hand, are weak, but no long suit, it is ok to pass?
c.
If you have a weak hand and a long suit , you should take out the double?

BTW
One fantastic new feature at BBO is that little box you get when you right click onto someone's name. With so many people and so many quirks it is great to be able to include individual bidding agreements(quirks). This includes some agreements to the above questions.

Orla

[inquiry]

Since this post is a whammy for me.... I just have to respond.    Looks like I have been responding too much since the bbo software now claims I am a world class poster... lol. Seems I went from "expert" to that when I hit 250 post. Maybe I type too much here.  

First, you are asking questions about what is STANDARD, and not a "PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT."  I don't think it is possible to answer it this way, as these treatments are all subject to partnership agreement. But I will strive to answer your questions.



1. Opening NT  - Over Opp's interference.
a. If Opp's interfere, whether it be a double or a suit, should ALL conventions be OFF?

Over Double playing strong NT, I think system is still on.
Over Weak NT it depends upon what your rollout of 1NT double is. If you play pass forces REDBOUBLE for instance, system can stay on.

If they bid a suit, system is off... you need to play lebehnshol.

1b.  If Opp's bid 2C and you were planning to bid Stayman, do you double to imply Stayman?

Standard treatment is double is penalty I think. I play double (assuming 2C natural) as takeout (other three suits, including majors).

c. If you have points, 2 4-card major suits but no stoppers in Opp's suit, what do you bid? If you doubled Opp's suit, would the NT opener know it was for take-out?

See above, I play double by opener or responder as takeout, but other partner can convert to penalty. I know this is not standard treatment in america. Read chapter 5 in Robson/Segal "competetive bidding at bridge". This is where I learned this treatment opposite NT bids and have been very happy with the results in competition.

2. Stayman/Transfers:
a. I have heard of different types of Stayman: Forcing/non forcing, Puppet? Could someone explain them?

You can throw puppet out the window, since you don't open 1NT with a 5 card major. Puppet stayman ask opener to bid 2H or 2S only with 5 card suit. Bid 2D with at least one 4 card major, and bid 2NT with no four or five card major. Even though I open 1NT with five card majors, I do not use puppet stayman.

Forcing/non forcing stayman is usually used with weak notrump. 2C is non-forcing stayman... the acution can die at the two level. But 2D is game forcing stayman, the partnership is forced to game. So both 1N-2C and 1N-2D are stayman.

b. If you are playing transfers, is a 2S bid always a minor transfer? To what suit? Or is it Stayman? Gosh, I am mixing things up now, I think.

A couple of options for 2S. One is a transfer to 3C. Another is as minor suit stayman (opener bids his best minor).

I have also played it as a three way bid... natural invite to 3NT (opener bids 2NT with a minimum), a minor two suiter (weak or strong--- over 2NT or 3m responder can make a constructive bid iwth a good hand, or pass 3m with bad hand or bid 3C over 2N to allow opener to pick a minor), or a signoff in diamonds... (over 2N or 3C responder bids 3D as signoff). Playing this way, 1NT-2NT is absolute transfer to 3C. Responder can pass to play (weak clubs) or bid 3D (forcing hand with diamonds) or 3 major or 3NT (forcing hand with clubs).  

c. When people talk about "Jacoby" are they talking about just plain transfers or is it more?

Transfer to the majors (ignoring jacoby 2NT). Four suit transfers are not part of plain jacoby.

3. Overcalling NT:
a. Is it always so, that when P bids 1NT, as an overcall, ALL conventions are ON? Happened to me last week and I didn't "recognize" 2C as Stayman  :

This is a matter of partnership agreement. Either you play system on, or not. If you play not, then cue-bid is stayman.


4. Doubling NT,
a. If P doubles Opp's NT is this always for penalties?(not counting NT defence conventions where a double means something in particular.)

With no partnership agreement, double would be penalty oriented. But most partnerships play some kind of convention... DONT, cappelletti, casinio, landy, becker, astro, aspro, woolsey, etc, etc, so double depends upon partnership agreement. But again, with no specific agreement, it is penalty.

b. So, if you have a balanced hand, are weak, but no long suit, it is ok to pass?

Is it ok to pass? You didn't double, but I would tend to run with some weak hands, but I have to admit, I don't remember the last time I played with anyone where double didn't have at least  some conventional agreement.

c. If you have a weak hand and a long suit , you should take out the double?

Depends upon the hand  (vulnerabilty, spot cards held, the 1NT range, exactly how weak) is the best I can say. I certainly feel that it is possible to pull the double. The double is penalty oriented, but you paid your money to sit at the table and you get a voice in the auction.  

[the hog]

Many of the questions have already been answered - a few additional thoughts:

A number of pairs play variable NTs depending on vul and position. The most extreme version I have seen is an Italian pair that play
9-11, 12-14, 14-16

Opening 1NT with a 4441 s/t K or A.  I know of a number of experts who do, but I don't like the idea.

Opening 2NT with a 4441 s/t A or K. This is a different kettle of fish. Many strong players will do this as it avoids the hand being passed out at the 1 level, and an awkward rebid if partner responds. This is fine.

One you haven't mentioned is overcalling 1NT with a s/t. (Not in their suit, of course). Well, what else are you going to do over say a 1D opening with
KQxx
AQxx
AJxx
x

Hate passing, double is worse, what else is left? I'd bid 1NT.

[Cave_Draco]

, Hog... you did suggest moving the NT comments; Orla pre-empted you.

A few comments:

1NT-2D-2H-3C probably shows a two-suiter (any partner that passed would be HD&Q) but to me suggests 3NT, 4H or 5C rather than being a game force let alone a slam try; I get another bid... 1NT-2D-2H-3C-3H-3S IS a slam try!

With regard to 1NT being disciplined? Ask Orla, I will open 1NT with a manky 5-card major but it is the exception; as Orla pointed out, bending the rules for the Weak NT is a matter of partnership trust. I will bend the rules, but I'd better have a good explanation... Losing the post-mortem,  .

Stayman? I play 1NT-2C-2?-3C/D as a weak t-o; 1NT-3C/D invites 3NT. I would prefer to play 1NT-2S as control asking: 2NT=0-1, 3NT=6: but it also makes sense to put twiddly bits in, which gets complicated, so MSS will have to do, lol.

[the hog]

"1NT-2D-2H-3C probably shows a two-suiter (any partner that passed would be HD&Q) but to me suggests 3NT, 4H or 5C rather than being a game force let alone a slam try; I get another bid... 1NT-2D-2H-3C-3H-3S IS a slam try"

I think you will find that nearly all play
1N 2D 2H 3C categorically as a GF and as I stated, carrying some slam connotations. This is a fairly standard continuation; whether its the best or not is another story entirely.