[jrcn50]

Hello,
Yesterday night, in Keylime lesson, first board:
N E S O
1S P 2C P
2NT .........................
Keylime said that 2NT showed 'a good 17-18H balanced hand' (lesson was in SAYC ): I believed that 2NT rebid in this auction (with standard SAYC), meant 12-15H balanced hand.
In this auction, I'd have bid 3NT (North had good 17H balanced hand )
What's your opinion?
Friendly,
Jean

[the hog]

I think in sayc this shows a minimum opener, ie 12-14

[Free]

Yeah, what else should you bid? Partner shows 10+ HCP, if you're minimum you should be able to bid without lying about your shape. 1H-1S-2NT is different because you jump, but when partner bids at 2-level, 2NT shows minimum balanced hand.

[inquiry]

Let me offer a third suggestion. You can get a copy of the ACBL booklet on SAYC at...
http://66.147.103.15...s/sayc_book.pdf

This booklet says, after a 1S or 1H opening bid that opener's rebids are (see the yellow highlighted one).

Opener Rebids with a minimum hand (13–16 points):
Rebidding notrump at the lowest available level;
Raising responder’s suit at the lowest level
Rebidding opener’s suit at the lowest level.

Of course, SAYC doesn't think you will open with only 12 hcp :-)

This is probably a good time to say that bidding systems, and styles vary all over the world. You might want to check the very simple auction 1C-P-1H-P-1S- that was given in another thread and the discussion of rather or not this 1S is forcing or not. I play it as not forcing with most partners, but forcing with others. These differences in bidding agreements occur all the time, as to this what does the 2NT rebid show? Extra value as keylime suggested or minimum.
Goren played 2NT rebid shows extra value, I believe, so it is just a matter or style/philosophy.

Ben

[luke warm]

i used to play sayc, the 2nt bid then was a minimum hand type, usually made when there was no other bid.. say a balanced 5332 or something.. the choice was between rebidding the 5 card major and bidding 2nt, so 2nt was thought to be the lesser of evils

[bhugi]

two issues, whether you want to discribe more on hcp or on distribution.

1) If minimum rebid is use to show minimum hand 12-14, then:

1s - 2c -
2nt

1s - 2c -
2s

Both show 12-15 minimum hands, but 2s definitely show 6+ good spade
and 2nt show 5-3-3-2


2) If 2s is the only minimum rebid, then:

1s - 2c -

2nt show maximum balanced hand 18-19 hcps, slam possible
3nt show 16-17 balanced hand to play
2S show minimum hand 12-14, with 5+ spade

For SAYC I preferred the 1st case, and for 2/1 I adapt to the 2nd.

[luke warm]

Quote

two issues, whether you want to discribe more on hcp or on distribution.

1) If minimum rebid is use to show minimum hand 12-14, then:

1s - 2c -
2nt

1s - 2c -
2s

Both show 12-15 minimum hands, but 2s definitely show 6+ good spade
and 2nt show 5-3-3-2


2) If 2s is the only minimum rebid, then:

1s - 2c -

2nt show maximum balanced hand 18-19 hcps, slam possible
3nt show 16-17 balanced hand to play
2S show minimum hand 12-14, with 5+ spade

For SAYC I preferred the 1st case, and for 2/1 I adapt to the 2nd.

i play 1S : 2C : 2S as showing 6 cards or 5 with 'extreme concentration' (much as i'd sometimes bid a 4 carder as if it was 5, with something like A,Q,J,X)

1S : 2C : 2NT is minimum balanced with 5 spades, 1S : 2C : 3NT is 18-19 balanced, 5 spades.. the reason is, with 15-17 balanced and 5 spades, i can open 1NT (and usually do)

[bearmum]

[Well I disagree with Keylime - in Standard American ( which is NOT SAYC by the way) the ONLY way to bid minimum hand with 5 card S suit ( AND not 3 card support for the C) is with 2NT . IF you have 17-18 - SURELY worth a JUMP to 3NT?? :-

quote author=jrcn50 link=board=5;threadid=1282;start=0#msg8010 date=1067073632]
Hello,
Yesterday night, in Keylime lesson, first board:
N E S O
1S P 2C P
2NT .........................
Keylime said that 2NT showed 'a good 17-18H balanced hand' (lesson was in SAYC ): I believed that 2NT rebid in this auction (with standard SAYC), meant 12-15H balanced hand.
In this auction, I'd have bid 3NT (North had good 17H balanced hand )
What's your opinion?
Friendly,
Jean

Quote

[jrcn50]

Thank you for all these answers

Jean

[luis]

I agree with my fellow BBF friends that 2NT is minimum on the posted sequence.
I also wanted to mention that I strongly suggest the 2NT bid to show:
- Stoppers in BOTH unbid suits
- Deny 4 cards in pd suit (may have 3)
- Deny a biddable 4 card side suit
That's why I think that 1M-2m;2M should be bid very frequently with 5 cards.
The same applies to 2/1 this particular sequence is not different.

Luis

[luke warm]

Quote

~snip~
That's why I think that 1M-2m;2M should be bid very frequently with 5 cards.
The same applies to 2/1 this particular sequence is not different.

Luis

i don't have a problem with this, as long as it's known the bid doesn't promise 6 (or a very good 5)... i also don't have a problem with the way i've always played it, but i don't have much problem bidding 1nt with a balanced hand with 5 M