[the hog]

AJTx
KQ
AKT
QT8x

Kx
AJx
Jxx
AJ9xx

6N, no opposition bidding. Yes please don't bother telling me 6C is cold.
H lead, C hook loses. My line was then to win the H return ,cash AK of D and play for a pointed suit squeeze which did not eventuate. The D hook would have worked. I know this is a reasonable line, but is it the optimum line? My maths is not good enough to work it out.

Ron
PS this cost a heap!

[Free]

I think I'd cash only HJ, DA, and run some Clubs. If west discards Spades, I'd make the D finesse, if he discards D I'd make the Spade finesse. But I'm also not sure if this is the best way...

Free

[flytoox]

perhaps u can deduce sth from the lead and defense strategy? also, i think cashing da, and sak better

[inquiry]

Quote

AJTx
KQ
AKT
QT8x

Kx
AJx
Jxx
AJ9xx

6N, no opposition bidding. Yes please don't bother telling me 6C is cold.
H lead, C hook loses. My line was then to win the H return ,cash AK of D and play for a pointed suit squeeze which did not eventuate. The D hook would have worked. I know this is a reasonable line, but is it the optimum line? My maths is not good enough to work it out.

Ron
PS this cost a heap!

With six cards in both key side suits, cashing AK in one before going for squeeze or hook in the other suit sounds about right. But to play for the squeeze (both queens in the same hand) seems about equal with just picking a suit to hook in. By this I mean the hand with the diamond Queen (for instance) has roughly a 50-50 chance to also hold the spade queen. The odds are affected a little by known cards/distribution. For instance if you were to discover that West held 3C and 6 hearts. If he held the diamond Queen, the odds are actually a lot less than 50% that he also holds the spade queen.

So I would like to see what you discovered about the distributions when you cashed five clubs, 1D, and 3 hearts before deciding how to continue. But I doubt the squeeze is ever better than just guessing a suit to hook and doing it.

As an aside, what heart did West lead? Restricted choice can apply to opening bids. West with something useful in one suit, might choose to lead from a suit with nothing in it. Thus, the heart lead might suggest that he has something in another suit. So, cashing two honors in one suit and hooking in the other seems better than playing simply for the squeeze. If West has something in both side suits this line works, as does the squeeze, if he doesn't you have the chance of dropping Qx first then the hook. I would trhy to figure out which side suit West is longest in (through play on clubs), and then cash winners in other side suit, then hook west for the Queen in the suit I think he is longest in.

[the hog]

The lead was the T of H

So I would like to see what you discovered about the distributions when you cashed five clubs, 1D, and 3 hearts before deciding how to continue. But I doubt the squeeze is ever better than just guessing a suit to hook and doing it.

C are 2-2, West pitches 2 Hearts and the D 3. East pitches 2 S, (the 4 and the 5 to be exact), and the 9 D - she played the 2 when you cashed the D A first.

If it helps, West is a strong player and East a weak client

[inquiry]

How did the play go on the three round of hearts?

If EAST is client, they tend to signal religiously to their pro. Are they playing UDCA so diamond 29 looks like doubleton? The spade discards look like from five card suit, maybe six card suit, but not clear.

Let's assume everyone followed to three hearts.. .here is what we know.

West 5H, East 3
West 2C, East 2

Assume East showed out on third heart, then west 6H and east 2. Either way, our task of which suit to hook becomes a little easier. Since clients always discard fromlegnth (well, always a little stong). In case one, I play East for 6-3-2-3. or perhaps 5-3-3-2. Either way, I think the odds favor hooking West for diamond queen (better odds to cross to dummy and hook spade, but too late for that now.

If West had 6 hearts and 2C, you can't squeeze him as he can;t have stoppers in both suits. East being 2-2 in clubs and hearts in this case, probably clearly probalby shows 5-4 with these discards. Now it is close, but I think I play for the vienna coup squeeze.

[luke warm]

east is 5242, west is 2632.. seems to me like spade finesse is 5:2 against, diamond hook is 4:3 against.. if i had to chose one suit i guess it'd be diamonds

if that dist is correct, i think i'd go with the diamnd hook.. but i might be wrong on all counts

[inquiry]

Quote

east is 5242, west is 2632.. seems to me like spade finesse is 5:2 against, diamond hook is 4:3 against.. if i had to chose one suit i guess it'd be diamonds

if that dist is correct, i think i'd go with the diamnd hook.. but i might be wrong on all counts

This is why if WEST has 6HEARTS I play for the squeeze instead of the hook if I think EAST has only 5 spades. East must have one of the queens (or doubleton) and has more cards in the other suit, making squeeze slightly better chance.

[the hog]

Full hands

AJTx
KQ
AKT
QT8x



xx Qxxxx
T9xxx xxx
Qxxx xxx
Kx xx


Kx
AJx
Jxx
AJ9xx

D hook would have worked.

Re signalling, don't thik you can draw too much inference there; client has apparently been told to keep them to a minimum!!

[inquiry]

Quote

Re signalling, don't thik you can draw too much inference there; client has apparently been told to keep them to a minimum!!

Five hearts with WEST, east throws two spades, hook diamonds.. seems easy, cash SACE then spade king first, odds slighlty or greatly better for diamond hook as seems west has 4 or 5 diamonds on the discards.

ben

[EricK]

I gave this problem to GIB.

It's line was

Heart King
Club finesse losing
take Heart return
cash second club ending in hand
cash third heart discarding spade
take diamond Ace
diamond King
run spade Jack
claim

So GIB doesn't run the clubs!

Whether this line is technically any good, I can't say. But it does have the benefit of working.

Eric

[the hog]

That's the problem with Gib, as that is definitely a double dummy line.
On reflection, I agree that D hook is best. Just one in a long line of disaters this weekend.

[EricK]

Quote

That's the problem with Gib, as that is definitely a double dummy line.
On reflection, I agree that D hook is best. Just one in a long line of disaters this weekend.

What do you mean by "a double dummy line" in this context? Obviously if GIB knew the location of the cards (which is what I understand by double dummy) it would simply finesse the Diamond Queen. I suspect that if you gave West Qx in spades then GIB would go down i.e. definitely not take a double dummy line.

Eric

[the hog]

Well why take the S hook rather than the D hook, EricK? Makes no sense to me.

[EricK]

Quote

Well why take the S hook rather than the D hook, EricK? Makes no sense to me.

My guess at GIB's "reasoning" is that if you place West with long hearts, then any finesse through East is better than a finesse throught West. Since the Spade finesse can be taken through East, but the Diamond finesse can't then GIB goes for the spade finesse. He correctly cashes two diamonds first in case the Queen is dropping.

Eric

[luke warm]

Quote

Quote

east is 5242, west is 2632.. seems to me like spade finesse is 5:2 against, diamond hook is 4:3 against.. if i had to chose one suit i guess it'd be diamonds

if that dist is correct, i think i'd go with the diamnd hook.. but i might be wrong on all counts

This is why if WEST has 6HEARTS I play for the squeeze instead of the hook if I think EAST has only 5 spades. East must have one of the queens (or doubleton) and has more cards in the other suit, making squeeze slightly better chance.

i don't see the squeeze... are you playing for something like:

A,J
-
J
-

x
-
10
x

see, east would need <both> queens (unless i'm missing something).. if he has SQ twice only, he just throws a diamond on the JD.. maybe i have a blind spot but i just don't see it

[inquiry]

Quote

i don't see the squeeze... are you playing for something like:

If West has six hearts and 2 clubs. He can have at most 2 cards in one of the other two suits. So you play a vienna coupe. Cash both diamonds honors, then run your winners... the position would be something like this when you cash your last club...


AJ
--
T
-- Qx
--
Q
x --
--
J
Q

When you cash the last club, throw diamond ten from dummy. East has a useless choice. If he throws away the Diamond JACK, if he throws a spade, you cash both spades in dummy starting with the ACE. This is the line Ron said he played for. If West has six hearts, it is the line I would play for too.

Ben

[luis]

Being east a client the hand is laydown. Play a heart to dummy and call the sJ, even if he doesn't cover he will consider or think about it if he has the queen. If he plays low quickly just overtake with the king and finesse the pro for the sQ.
Piece of cake ;-)

[Free]

Euhm Luis, if you play that way against me at the table, you will lose your contract! If you see dummy, you should already know what you will play if opponents play any card... So I won't have to consider weither or not to play the queen if you play SJ after a while.

[luke warm]

Quote

If West has six hearts and 2 clubs. He can have at most 2 cards in one of the other two suits. So you play a vienna coupe. Cash both diamonds honors, then run your winners... the position would be something like this when you cash your last club...


AJ
--
T
-- Qx
--
Q
x --
--
J
Q

When you cash the last club, throw diamond ten from dummy. East has a useless choice. If he throws away the Diamond JACK, if he throws a spade, you cash both spades in dummy starting with the ACE. This is the line Ron said he played for. If West has six hearts, it is the line I would play for too.

Ben

ok, this is what i was alluding to.. east would need both queens for a squeeze to work.. that's what i meant, and i really don't know what the odds are of east holding both queens compared to the (given the 'squeeze' dist) diamond hook.. i would believe at the table that west has 6 hearts as the hand is played, so if i had to choose i'd probably go for the squeeze also.. who knows, i might win a beer