[inquiry]

Here is a hand from a recent abalucy tournment, to hopefully stimulate discussion on merits of splinter bids, jacoby 2NT, principle of fast arrival, picture jumps, and other issues of raising with support. There is also a small play quiz (3 out of 7 people in 6S went down).

Dealer North
Vuln. None

As South you hold....
S AQJ86
H 85
D J
C AQT97

What do you respond to your partners first seat 1S opening bid (assume you are playing 2/1 GF with 2NT being a spade raise)?

You have three apparent options:
2NT = spade raise
4D = splinter bid
2C followed by a spade raise.

In the 12 table abalucy event, this is the statistics for responders first bid…

2C = 6 for 50%
4D = 3 for 25%
2NT = 2 for 17%
4NT = 1 for 8%

There is no merit to the 4NT bid. For one thing, you maybe off two cashable hearts. So let’s just learn from their mistake and don’t jump the gun by blasting with blackwood on this hand.

So that leaves a game forcing spade raise with a jump to 2NT, a game forcing splinter bid double jump to 4D (showing spades and a singleton or void in diamonds), and temporarily hiding your spade support to show your own good club suit response by bidding 2C.

The results of the real world bidding shows what you are probably fast learning… there are many different potential answers to each bidding situation. Although, I have to admit that I don’t think what to bid here is anywhere near as close as the bidding seems to indicates. I would bid 2C with this hand. While I believe in the general rule to show support for partner immediately, this hand is strong enough to take it slow and describe your hand during the process.

If you respond 2C, your partner will bid 2H's and the bidding comes back to you. What is your next bid? Now it is time to show your support. You are in a game forcing situation (since we said 2/1 game force), so you have three unambiguous spade raises raises available: 2S, 3S or 4S. Which should you choose.

Here bidding theory diverges. Some play principle of fast arrival, so with a minimum 2/1 GF hand, they would jump to 4S. Others play a very useful (and I think superior) treatment in which a jump to 4S is a “picture bid” showing controls only in the two suits bid by responder (a hand like S-AQxx H-xx D-xx C-AKJxx).

This hand is too good for principle of fast arrival, and the diamond control eliminates the use of a picture bid leap, so regardless of which of these you and your partner have agreed to use (yes, things like this must be discussed or you will not know how to bid these hands), the jump to 4S is out of the question.

4D as a splinter might be nice alternative to 2 or 3S's, but partner may assume you have heart support. Of course, you could correct his misconception by bidding back to spades later, but this still might cloud the issue.

So your choice is now between 2S and 3S. Both are still game force, and both deny whatever the jump to 4S would have shown. So which shows the better hand? When I play picture jumps, I use the 3S bid as too good for picture jump, and specifically mild slam interest. I use 2S as either strong slam interest or no slam interest. I will make my choice clear on the next round of bidding. Here I have mild slam interest and spade fit, so a jump to 3S is just what I play.

Ok, so let's give you a possible auction and then ask you how you would play the hand in slam.

Dealer North
Vuln. None

S AQJ86
H 85
D J
C AQT97

S KT753
H KJ74
D AQ7
C 4

1S - 2C
2H - 3S
3N - 4C
4D - 4S
4N - 5S
6S - Pass

I have reversed teh hands to let you play it from the hand on the bottom. The opening lead Diamond 8 to JACK-KING-ACE. Plan your plan (when you eventually lead a spade, the hand that is now to your right (the one that played the diamond king) show out.

Ben

[luke warm]

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Ben wrote:

As South you hold....
S AQJ86
H 85
D J
C AQT97

What do you respond to your partners first seat 1S opening bid (assume you are playing 2/1 GF with 2NT being a spade raise)?

i like 3C here, showing good spade support (4+) with clubs, should ops accidently sac in 7H ... i believe cuebidding is in order now, and a slam should not be missed... but given the bids we're to choose from, 4D stands out.. even if partner signs off in 4S i wouldn't let it end there

if the bidding went 1S : 2C : 2H : 3S (which i'd bid over 2S), i think opener *has* to bid 3NT serious slam interest OR cuebid... responder is unlimited, and opener owes it to the p'ship to show values on the way to game...

Quote

Ben posted:

Ok, so let's give you a possible auction and then ask you how you would play the hand in slam.

Dealer North
Vuln. None

S AQJ86
H 85
D J
C AQT97

S KT753
H KJ74
D AQ7
C 4

1S - 2C
2H - 3S
3N - 4C
4D - 4S
4N - 5S
6S - Pass

I have reversed teh hands to let you play it from the hand on the bottom. The opening lead Diamond 8 to JACK-KING-ACE. Plan your plan (when you eventually lead a spade, the hand that is now to your right (the one that played the diamond king) show out.

i'm not fond of the bidding, i believe opener should bid 4C instead of 3NT, but the final contract would be the same (responder bids RKC).. anyway, the lead tends to show 3 or 4 diamonds on my left, 9,8,6,(x) maybe

club to the ace, trump a club, top diamond tossing heart, trump a diamond, lead a heart.. put in J unless A played (maybe the K depending on who's sitting on my right)

LHO is on lead (unless AH played by RHO) with this remaining:

QJ86
--
--
QT9

KT75
K74
--
--

if he leads a spade, i win on board and crossruff the rest (holding my breath when i trump with the S7).. anything other than a trump back makes it easy

how many am i down?

[flytoox]

dqueen discard one heart, then finesse club queen, basically u r forced to do so. Even if clube 4-3, u will be short of entry to ruff 3 rounds club in hand.


sry this seems wrong. if club 4-3, no problem.

[luke warm]

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dqueen discard one heart, then finesse club queen, basically u r forced to do so. Even if clube 4-3, u will be short of entry to ruff 3 rounds club in hand.

hmmmmmmm... i don't think i'd do this (maybe it's right tho)

[Free]

First I'll play DQ discarding a H, then I'll play C to the Ace, ruff an C, ruff a D, ruff a C, play H. If they play S, I'll end up in North and ruff another C. I can ruff 4 Clubs without any problems, I only lose a H...

[inquiry]

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(SNIP)... (Luke warm had some suggestions related to raises that need to be discussed within the thread on ways to raise partner. His comments came from the quoted reply)

He said he likes to respond 3C here directly over 1S. What is up with that? There are several conventional bids that allow this jumpshift. One is playing a kind of strong jumpshift where the jumpshift shows either a one suited hand with at most one loser opposite a singleton or a two suited hand with the bid suit and support for partner. I don't think this is what lukewarm had in mind, given he said his bid promised spade support.

The other is the concept of a "FIT JUMP" where a jump promises a fit for partner's suit plus the suit bid. This is what I think he had in mind. I actually like the fit jump, but I make them very limited since I can always bid 2-over-1 game force then show support with a hand that is strong enough to force to game. This type of fit jump is definetly currently not mainstream. Maybe someday, it should be.

Next he suggest that if we take away his favorite tool (the fit jump), for him the standout bid is 4D. I have to admit that Misho, a player I respect a lot, also bid 4D with this hand, and over his partner's "signoff" in 4S, continued with blackwood. Having said that I don't think this bidding is right. In fact, if you are going to make the splinter bid, then go directly into blackwood, I suspect that an immediate blackwood would be better still.

But the real difference of opition is do you show your singleton or your five card suit with a big fit with partner's major? I like to bid what I have, not what I have not.... so the big feature of my hand is the five card club suit, so that is what I would show.

Luke mentioned in one place that as opener he would bid serious 3NT (which indeed was what I would do), but he then follows it up with the bid he really prefers... a 4C cue bid by opener (on a singleton).

I have to admit I had a very long, and very drawn out argument with 2over1 in this forum on whether or not one should or should not cue-bid a singleton in partners suit on 2/1 auction like this. You can play it either way, but I have come to believe that in the long run, it is better not to cue-bid shortness in your partners suit, at least as a first cue-bid, ESPECIALLY if serious 3NT is available. It is something to think about.

Ben

[flytoox]

Quote

QJ86
--
--
QT9

KT75
K74
--
--

if he leads a spade, i win on board and crossruff the rest (holding my breath when i trump with the S7).. anything other than a trump back makes it easy

how many am i down?

Here we still need west has long club, othewise he will overruff. HOw about discard the 2nd small h on the small diamond in third round?

[luke warm]

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from flytoox:
Here we still need west has long club, othewise he will overruff. HOw about discard the 2nd small h on the small diamond in third round?

sorry, i'm not following.. can you do the sequence for me? also, i said i was holding my breath on the 2nd club ruff ... did you mean, win first diamond, toss both hearts on diamonds?

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from inquiry:

Luke mentioned in one place that as opener he would bid serious 3NT (which indeed was what I would do), but he then follows it up with the bid he really prefers... a 4C cue bid by opener (on a singleton).

actually i said he should bid 3nt OR cuebid (since responder is still unlimited).. i actually don't think opener's hand is good enough for serious 3nt, which is why i opted for the cue.. and you're right about my 3C bid, it was a fit jump *promising* good spades.. as for showing a stiff in pard's suit, i'm not willing to say whether or not it should *never* be done... maybe you're right, ben... i just don't know.. i do think that if the cue happens it needs to be earlier rather than later, since in some sequences it would be more of a picture bid..

as for the splinter, i think i understand your reluctance to bid it... however, i like it better than 2C and *much* better than either 2NT or 4NT...

as for the limited nature of fit jumps, that's true to a point.. all pard knows (if they are used) is that the p'ship is forced to that particular level.. there's plenty of time and room to correct that

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from free:

First I'll play DQ discarding a H, then I'll play C to the Ace, ruff an C, ruff a D, ruff a C, play H. If they play S, I'll end up in North and ruff another C. I can ruff 4 Clubs without any problems, I only lose a H...

i'm not sure free but i think you're in the wrong hand for a heart lead.. maybe i read it wrong, but it seems that you need to be in a position to cover RHO's card.. 'course i guess this isn't absolutely necessary

[flytoox]

Quote

Quote

from flytoox:
Here we still need west has long club, othewise he will overruff. HOw about discard the 2nd small h on the small diamond in third round?

sorry, i'm not following.. can you do the sequence for me? also, i said i was holding my breath on the 2nd club ruff ... did you mean, win first diamond, toss both hearts on diamonds?

sorry for the unclear expression. yes, da win dk, dq discard a small h, then another d discard another small h from dummy. If east win, we may endplay him for a trick.

[inquiry]

Quote

as for the splinter, i think i understand your reluctance to bid it... however, i like it better than 2C and *much* better than either 2NT or 4NT...

I am a little confused. You say that 4D is *much* better than a direct 4NT. Yet earlier you said that you wouldn't let the bidding end in 4S. Now I don't know how you plan to continue over 4S, but at least one player bid 4D then 4NT.

In this case, there are two ways to 4NT...

1S - 4D
4S - 4NT

and

1S - 4NT

The first gives the opponents information for free ( unless you use 4NT on this auction as exclusion blackwood asking outside of diamonds).

I actually like the 2C bid for a reason not discussed. You may get a chance to make the splinter anyway. Imagine two simple auctions...

1S-2C
2S-4D , and

1S-2C
2N-4D

Of course, over 2H's the 4D bid could be ambigious so I wouldn't use it without prior discussion as to what suit the splinter is showing support for.

Ben

[easy]

Ben said

"So your choice is now between 2S and 3S. Both are still game force, and both deny whatever the jump to 4S would have shown. So which shows the better hand? When I play picture jumps, I use the 3S bid as too good for picture jump, and specifically mild slam interest. I use 2S as either strong slam interest or no slam interest. I will make my choice clear on the next round of bidding. Here I have mild slam interest and spade fit, so a jump to 3S is just what I play. "

I prefer 2c rather than 4D or 2NT. I have a rule that with a balanced hand i ask partner about his hand via 2nt and with an unbalanced hand i show what i consider my most important feature ie a singleton or my good suit.
Showing my good club suit allows us to determine if a double fit exists.

I too would rebid 3s however this is a picture bid in my partnership. it shows good spades , good clubs and an outside control. fits this hand rather well dont u think.

Mike Lawrence has a very good description of picture bids in his book "2 over 1 Workbook" this book is well worth the price for those that wish to learn 2/1.

[luis]

S AQJ86
H 85
D J
C AQT97

S KT753
H KJ74
D AQ7
C 4


I like 2s after 1s-2c;2h I play 2s as interested in distribution of opener's hand while 3s is interested in controls. So opener now bids 3d and we know he's 5-4-3-1. Then we will probably reach the same slam after bidding 3s over 3d since opener has the heart control and receives the lead.

The play... Mmmmm maybe I'm going down 1, I'd discard a heart inmediately on the dQ and play a club to the ace and a heart back to hand. Even without luck in hearts you can win the hand on a crossruff when west returns a trump.

[luke warm]

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from lewis:

The play... Mmmmm maybe I'm going down 1, I'd discard a heart inmediately on the dQ and play a club to the ace and a heart back to hand. Even without luck in hearts you can win the hand on a crossruff when west returns a trump.

right, this looks good also... i also think fly's solution (toss 2 hearts on the diamonds) has merit

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from ben:

I am a little confused. You say that 4D is *much* better than a direct 4NT. Yet earlier you said that you wouldn't let the bidding end in 4S. Now I don't know how you plan to continue over 4S, but at least one player bid 4D then 4NT.

In this case, there are two ways to 4NT...

1S - 4D
4S - 4NT

and

1S - 4NT

i said i *liked* it much better, not that it is a much better bid ... and i do... it would be my 2nd choice, after 3C.. and no, i wouldn't let it end there, much as i wouldn't let it end in 4S if i had bid 3C

all splinter bids give information to the opponents, just as all bergen raises allow for lead directing doubles.. i'm not a theorist so i can't speak to whether or not a splinter gives *too* much info.. the question boils down to whether or not the info given is more help to partner or the ops

normally i'd respect partner's wishes after 1S : 4D : 4S, after all partner knows the rule of 26 also, but i think this particular hand is worth taking a look... maybe it's wrong to do so, but if so it wouldn't be my last wrong decision

as an aside (given 3C is off the table), don't 1S : 2C : 2S : 4D and 1S : 2C : 2NT : 4D give the ops the same info, with the added bonus of club distribution?

i don't think any of those bids are *bad* bids, ben... in the end it's just a matter of preference

let me take a moment to thank you for giving me the link to the robson/segal book.. i really enjoy it, there's a lot of gold there

[inquiry]

Quote

as an aside (given 3C is off the table), don't 1S : 2C : 2S : 4D and 1S : 2C : 2NT : 4D give the ops the same info, with the added bonus of club distribution?

Yes, 2C then 4D gives the opponents a nice view of your hand. That is a side affect of giving your partner a nice view so he can evaluate his degree of fit. When you bid 2C then 4D, you are seeking cooperation from partner. If partner decides to bid just 4S over this, you should pass. That is cooperative bidding.

Now compare that with the following auction...

1S-4D
4S-4NT

You are not seeking any cooperation from partner. You simply took control and after finding out whatever you can find out after 4NT, you will bid or not bid slam. Now the only person that can make ANY use of the information provided by 4D is your opponents. You told your partner about your stiff diamond, but then he is out of the loop. This "take charge" bidding is ok, but if you think this is going to be your strategy, it is a mistake to bid 4D to start off with. Now, you could bid like this...

1S-4D
4S-5C or
?

Here 5C is inviting partner's participation with a heart control. If I was north, I would cue-bid my diamond ACE only if I also had a heart control. And a heart cue-bid would deny a diamond control. And 5S would deny a heart control. At least here you INVITE your partner to participate and give him the information to do so logically.

But it is this, the "cooperative" nature of the bids that makes one bid better than the other. If your plan is to bid 4NT after partners response to 4D then by all means DONT BID 4D's, just go ahead and bid 4NT. Or pscyh a 4H splinter bid if it is splinter.

BTW, it is this don't share with opponents what they don't need to know that has made me switch away from jacoby 2NT.
Ben

[pbleighton]

"BTW, it is this don't share with opponents what they don't need to know that has made me switch away from jacoby 2NT.
Ben"

What do you use in it's place?

Peter

[inquiry]

Quote

"BTW, it is this don't share with opponents what they don't need to know that has made me switch away from jacoby 2NT.
Ben"

What do you use in it's place?

I initially switched to "New Jacoby" as written up in one of Bergen’s books, “Bid Better with Bergen, Volume 2” I think. You can find a version of it on line at sites like the following...
http://home.nikocity...nt/BergJ2nt.htm

But I found that Bergen’s version did not fit my needs either, because I didn't want to play Bergen raises (I prefer limited fit jumps), but I still wanted to keep 1H-3H and 1S-3S as preemptive raises. So I needed something to include limit raises and forcing raises rolled into one. So I adopted a European style 2NT limit raise or better. The method I play is the one described in the ETM Victory. A very short description of which can be found at:
http://www.bridgematters.com/jplus.htm

Ben

[Free]

Hi Luke,

this hand is played in the south position right? So a Diamond lead for Jack King Ace, it means my DQ is a trick (to discard a Heart). I don't think I'm playing in the wrong hand, there is no Heart lead (with a H lead I don't have to discard a H). Correct me if I'm wrong...

Free

[luke warm]

Quote

Hi Luke,

this hand is played in the south position right? So a Diamond lead for Jack King Ace, it means my DQ is a trick (to discard a Heart). I don't think I'm playing in the wrong hand, there is no Heart lead (with a H lead I don't have to discard a H). Correct me if I'm wrong...

Free

ok, guess i got confused