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Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Conservative Week
#1
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Posted 2006-February-17, 10:45
What do you think of each of these passes?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
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#2
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Posted 2006-February-17, 10:52
Hannie, on Feb 17 2006, 11:45 AM, said:
What do you think of each of these passes?
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
As you know I play 14-16 often so here is my take.
1) 3D will force to game
2) do not play drury so not sure who is showing what
3) 4C minimum splinter...force to game.
4) Clear opener even in 4th seat.
will email and ask a couple of other 14-16 nt players for their take and post...
edit
1) 2 more votes for 2nt on this one
3) 2 more votes for 4s on this one
#3
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Posted 2006-February-17, 10:59
First Pass: It'd be nice to be playing something like Keri here where you can invite and stop in 2♠. My tendency is to invite here, but it'd be effected by: (1) form of scoring (2) how often partner upgrades hands into and out of the NT range (3) whether partner's 2♠ accept denies four-card support. If it's MPs, partner upgrades a lot, and 2♠ pretty much denies four spades, then I think passing is right.
Second Pass: Seems reasonable (more so if you open light). You've already made a try by bidding 2♦ and partner declined that try. Doubleton honors aren't the greatest thing in the world. Give partner: Kxx xxx Jxx AQxx and even 3♠ is in danger. Of course, this all depends on what qualifies for drury and what doesn't.
Third Pass: I would like this bid more if the minor suits were reversed, since shortness in the suit partner opened is normally a negative. With a nine-card trump fit I would make a try here. Give partner something like Kxxx xx AKxx xxx and you have pretty decent chances, and that's not even an opening hand for most of us.
Fourth Pass: I agree with this pass and would pass routinely (at all forms of scoring) unless partner expected me to open most 11 counts. The jacks compensate for the aces and 4333 hands are lousy.
Second Pass: Seems reasonable (more so if you open light). You've already made a try by bidding 2♦ and partner declined that try. Doubleton honors aren't the greatest thing in the world. Give partner: Kxx xxx Jxx AQxx and even 3♠ is in danger. Of course, this all depends on what qualifies for drury and what doesn't.
Third Pass: I would like this bid more if the minor suits were reversed, since shortness in the suit partner opened is normally a negative. With a nine-card trump fit I would make a try here. Give partner something like Kxxx xx AKxx xxx and you have pretty decent chances, and that's not even an opening hand for most of us.
Fourth Pass: I agree with this pass and would pass routinely (at all forms of scoring) unless partner expected me to open most 11 counts. The jacks compensate for the aces and 4333 hands are lousy.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#4
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:00
1) I would have invited, ok the spade suit is
not briliant, A, KQ are nice values, i.e. I
have 9 HCP ( ... and a 5 card suit)
2) dont play drury, i.e. no idea what 2C / 2S
showed
3) LTC tells me to go to game, 9 card fit
the only issue is, we are playing MP
... either 4S or invite
4) 1C for me, but it is close
since you are playing light openings 1C,
wtp ? .-) After all you have 2 quick tricks,
which cant be said about all light openers.
With kind regards
Marlowe
not briliant, A, KQ are nice values, i.e. I
have 9 HCP ( ... and a 5 card suit)
2) dont play drury, i.e. no idea what 2C / 2S
showed
3) LTC tells me to go to game, 9 card fit
the only issue is, we are playing MP
... either 4S or invite
4) 1C for me, but it is close
since you are playing light openings 1C,
wtp ? .-) After all you have 2 quick tricks,
which cant be said about all light openers.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#5
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:00
I agree with the first two passes, and could go either way on the fourth, but unless I'm misreading the auction I feel fairly strongly that you should make another move on the third hand.
#6 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-February-17, 11:03
1) Fine at MPs, not good at imps. Another good hand for 2C followed by 2S showing a distributional invite. At imps I'd transfer and bid 2N.
2) Hate it. Would bid 4S over 2C, but would at least bid 3D over 2S.
3) I actually held this hand and my auction began the same and I bid 4S (which I thought was clear). Passing with 5-5 and 9 trumps and prime cards and the right stiff doesn't make sense to me. I can construct many balanced average 11 counts where game is good.
4) Like it, can go either way. If my agreement was light openings (which I don't have with anyone) and partner duly compensated I think I should open. In most of my partnerships we don't open balanced 11s unless they are very good and this seems more like an average 11 count than a 12. If my agreement were to open average balanced 11s then I would open this. Mainly a style thing.
2) Hate it. Would bid 4S over 2C, but would at least bid 3D over 2S.
3) I actually held this hand and my auction began the same and I bid 4S (which I thought was clear). Passing with 5-5 and 9 trumps and prime cards and the right stiff doesn't make sense to me. I can construct many balanced average 11 counts where game is good.
4) Like it, can go either way. If my agreement was light openings (which I don't have with anyone) and partner duly compensated I think I should open. In most of my partnerships we don't open balanced 11s unless they are very good and this seems more like an average 11 count than a 12. If my agreement were to open average balanced 11s then I would open this. Mainly a style thing.
#7
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:04
A. Pass could work, but another move is in order. The suit sucks, but this isn;t that bad of a hand.
B. This is about the only hand I'd probably pass on. The way I play, pard has 3 trump and no shortness. This hand isn't worth a 14 count.
C. This is a game bid, not a game try.
D. MP's I open. 2 aces and its what the field rates to do.
B. This is about the only hand I'd probably pass on. The way I play, pard has 3 trump and no shortness. This hand isn't worth a 14 count.
C. This is a game bid, not a game try.
D. MP's I open. 2 aces and its what the field rates to do.
"Phil" on BBO
#8 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-February-17, 11:05
awm, on Feb 17 2006, 11:59 AM, said:
Give partner something like Kxxx xx AKxx xxx and you have pretty decent chances, and that's not even an opening hand for most of us.
You make a convincing argument for bidding 4S as opposed to game trying.
#9
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:10
1st hand is close but probably my choice (although from what you said before, your 14-16 NT is actually a bit stronger than that? in which case I'd invite)
2nd hand, a pass looks clearcut
3rd hand I'd definitely punt game
4th hand I'd open but don't mind not doing so
2nd hand, a pass looks clearcut
3rd hand I'd definitely punt game
4th hand I'd open but don't mind not doing so
#10
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:13
Ah but there are also the hands that don't usually make game:
KQxx xx QJxx KQx
Qxxx Qx AJxx Kxx
Kxxx Qxx J9xx AQ
Considering the opening style, I think it's likely that these 12-13 counts are opening bids. Most of us don't pass the opponents 2♣ with four cards support. But the first hand we have three top minor losers and aren't that likely to get rid of all the hearts. On the second hand we lose one trick in each suit unless the spade king is singleton or doubleton onside (unlikely given the bidding). On the third hand we might make if every suit behaves but it's much less than 50-50.
It seems like an intelligent game try will get partner to accept with "pure" values (aces and kings) and pass with most quacky hands. I'm not convinced this is a case where "partner can't make the right decision" despite the fact that "not all hands with maximum values make game good, and some hands with minimum values make it excellent." If it was IMPs I would agree that just blasting the game is best, but at MPs a try seems reasonable.
KQxx xx QJxx KQx
Qxxx Qx AJxx Kxx
Kxxx Qxx J9xx AQ
Considering the opening style, I think it's likely that these 12-13 counts are opening bids. Most of us don't pass the opponents 2♣ with four cards support. But the first hand we have three top minor losers and aren't that likely to get rid of all the hearts. On the second hand we lose one trick in each suit unless the spade king is singleton or doubleton onside (unlikely given the bidding). On the third hand we might make if every suit behaves but it's much less than 50-50.
It seems like an intelligent game try will get partner to accept with "pure" values (aces and kings) and pass with most quacky hands. I'm not convinced this is a case where "partner can't make the right decision" despite the fact that "not all hands with maximum values make game good, and some hands with minimum values make it excellent." If it was IMPs I would agree that just blasting the game is best, but at MPs a try seems reasonable.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#11
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:16
My take:
1) I agree with Adam -- if you can invite without going past 2S, this is perfect. Otherwise, I think I would still invite.
3) This is between GF and invite for me. I would force to game.
Arend
1) I agree with Adam -- if you can invite without going past 2S, this is perfect. Otherwise, I think I would still invite.
3) This is between GF and invite for me. I would force to game.
Arend
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#12 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-February-17, 11:36
Quote
Ah but there are also the hands that don't usually make game:
KQxx xx QJxx KQx
Qxxx Qx AJxx Kxx
Kxxx Qxx J9xx AQ
Considering the opening style, I think it's likely that these 12-13 counts are opening bids. Most of us don't pass the opponents 2♣ with four cards support. But the first hand we have three top minor losers and aren't that likely to get rid of all the hearts. On the second hand we lose one trick in each suit unless the spade king is singleton or doubleton onside (unlikely given the bidding). On the third hand we might make if every suit behaves but it's much less than 50-50.
It seems like an intelligent game try will get partner to accept with "pure" values (aces and kings) and pass with most quacky hands. I'm not convinced this is a case where "partner can't make the right decision" despite the fact that "not all hands with maximum values make game good, and some hands with minimum values make it excellent." If it was IMPs I would agree that just blasting the game is best, but at MPs a try seems reasonable.
KQxx xx QJxx KQx
Qxxx Qx AJxx Kxx
Kxxx Qxx J9xx AQ
Considering the opening style, I think it's likely that these 12-13 counts are opening bids. Most of us don't pass the opponents 2♣ with four cards support. But the first hand we have three top minor losers and aren't that likely to get rid of all the hearts. On the second hand we lose one trick in each suit unless the spade king is singleton or doubleton onside (unlikely given the bidding). On the third hand we might make if every suit behaves but it's much less than 50-50.
It seems like an intelligent game try will get partner to accept with "pure" values (aces and kings) and pass with most quacky hands. I'm not convinced this is a case where "partner can't make the right decision" despite the fact that "not all hands with maximum values make game good, and some hands with minimum values make it excellent." If it was IMPs I would agree that just blasting the game is best, but at MPs a try seems reasonable.
I don't agree with you about hand 2. Your analysis seems to assume a diamond lead 100 % of the time after the 1D opener. On a non diamond lead, the club ace will usually be onside so you get a discard.
On hand 1 it's not so clear for the opponents to take their 4 tricks. Say you receive a heart lead and you win and lead a club up. Is it so clear for them to take the ace and cash diamonds? Maybe but it doesn't seem to happen that way in real life. What about if LHO has the AK of diamonds? He will lead a high one, and will it be clear to shift to a heart? If he plays AK A we will make. Etc. AND if we bid 3H I would not be shocked if partner tried 3N with his actual hand anyways so a game try wouldn't be much better.
Hand 3 is a terrible 12 with 6 HCP in clubs. Hand 1 has the KQ of clubs (worst cards) and QJ of diamonds for 8 wasted points. Sure, sometime game will go down if you jump to it. The relevant times are when:
1) Game goes down and pard would pass a game try.
2) Game makes and pard would reject a game try.
3) You gain a trick by concealing your heart suit and not making a game try but bidding game (most notably via a heart lead or subsequent misdefense).
In my experience concealment with a hand like this is a huge weapon. Besides I think 2 is more likely than 1 anyways (debatable).
I think the more analytical types of players downplay the gains of things like point 3 in general or of getting a bad lead. Or maybe I give it too much credit.
#13 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-February-17, 11:54
Also on your third example a club lead is likely/possible in which case you can just hook and shake a diamond and are now in good shape.
#14
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:55
Looks like I may be the odd man out here: I do not like any of the passes.
Actually, I am close to Justin in my approach.
Hand 1: you do not state whether you are practicing for imps, mps, rubber, BAM etc. At mps, I pass. At imps I bid 2N, not liking it. Ask me tomorrow, and maybe I will like the pass: it is that close.
Hand 2: serious drury players have a lot of agreements in place here, and I do not know what 2♦ showed in your methods. That would have some bearing on my next move. I also do not know the lower end of your drury style: in two current partnerships, I play two different ranges. Assuming 2♣ showed a normal limit raise hand, I would not pass at imps. I would make a try: the precise try depending on agreements
Hand 3: I would just bid 4♠. Pass is incomprehensible to me.
Hand 4: I have 4 controls and 12 hcp and no rebid problem and no horrible wastage such as QJ tight. I would have to have miscounted to pass this. I know that the LTC is too high, but I only use LTC as a check for borderline hands. This is obviously an absolute minimum, but (oddly enough) I do not consider it borderline.
Actually, I am close to Justin in my approach.
Hand 1: you do not state whether you are practicing for imps, mps, rubber, BAM etc. At mps, I pass. At imps I bid 2N, not liking it. Ask me tomorrow, and maybe I will like the pass: it is that close.
Hand 2: serious drury players have a lot of agreements in place here, and I do not know what 2♦ showed in your methods. That would have some bearing on my next move. I also do not know the lower end of your drury style: in two current partnerships, I play two different ranges. Assuming 2♣ showed a normal limit raise hand, I would not pass at imps. I would make a try: the precise try depending on agreements
Hand 3: I would just bid 4♠. Pass is incomprehensible to me.
Hand 4: I have 4 controls and 12 hcp and no rebid problem and no horrible wastage such as QJ tight. I would have to have miscounted to pass this. I know that the LTC is too high, but I only use LTC as a check for borderline hands. This is obviously an absolute minimum, but (oddly enough) I do not consider it borderline.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#15
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:56
Hannie, on Feb 17 2006, 11:45 AM, said:
What do you think of each of these passes?
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Scoring: Bidding practice
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass
Hand 1: Well its very conservative. I wouldn't pass at imps but it could work. Passing at mps is not obsurd but will be very anti-field if partner has 15-16.
Hand 2: I think pass is clear in my style of drury (starts at a good 8, so this sequence shows about 8-10), I don't know what your drury bids promise.
Hand 3: I think pass is crazy. I think you are too good to even only invite with that minor suit shape (switch the minors and you only have an invite).
Hand 4: Well NV vs NV at mps, you are suppossed to bid at every turn if reasonable to do so. Here partner expects a balanced 11-13, right? So a 4333 12 count with 2 aces probably wouldn't dissapoint too much. So I hate this pass.
#16
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Posted 2006-February-17, 11:57
109xxx
Axx
KQxx
x
I really like to use stayman followed by 2S for these hands, but unfortunately we didn't have that agreement. We were practicing for a MP tournament so I passed. Partner had a 4333 hand with 3 small spades. 4S is down off the top but 3NT actually has some chances.
Q9xxx
Qx
AK109
Kx
We bid drury on many 10-counts, I thought my pass was very close. Partner had a 10-count with the stiff jack of diamonds, I was lucky to make an overtrick.
AJxxx
A109xx
10x
x
I tabled Qxxx x AQxx K10xx, the opponents did well to lead a heart and hold partner to only 10 tricks.
Jxx
A10x
Jxx
AQxx
Our agreement is to open good balanced 11-counts, and pass average balanced 11-counts. I still could go either way on this hand. Partner had Axx KQxx AKQxx J. Slam isn't good but happens to make (hearts come in, club finesse is on). This was a 3-table tourny, nobody was in slam.
Axx
KQxx
x
I really like to use stayman followed by 2S for these hands, but unfortunately we didn't have that agreement. We were practicing for a MP tournament so I passed. Partner had a 4333 hand with 3 small spades. 4S is down off the top but 3NT actually has some chances.
Q9xxx
Qx
AK109
Kx
We bid drury on many 10-counts, I thought my pass was very close. Partner had a 10-count with the stiff jack of diamonds, I was lucky to make an overtrick.
AJxxx
A109xx
10x
x
I tabled Qxxx x AQxx K10xx, the opponents did well to lead a heart and hold partner to only 10 tricks.
Jxx
A10x
Jxx
AQxx
Our agreement is to open good balanced 11-counts, and pass average balanced 11-counts. I still could go either way on this hand. Partner had Axx KQxx AKQxx J. Slam isn't good but happens to make (hearts come in, club finesse is on). This was a 3-table tourny, nobody was in slam.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#17
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Posted 2006-February-17, 12:52
On board 3, pass was simply a bad bid. Someone (who could it be?) was way too much in a MP mode of going plus. Shame on them.
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#18
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Posted 2006-February-17, 13:09
hehe Matt, we have all done far worse. 
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#19
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Posted 2006-February-17, 13:46
Hannie, on Feb 17 2006, 02:09 PM, said:
hehe Matt, we have all done far worse.
Not me!!!!
And you can't prove me wrong: I burned all the records
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#20
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Posted 2006-February-17, 13:50
You forgot to burn all your www.bridgebase.com/myhands records.. still 30 hands that you played in the last month!
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
1NT(14-16) - 2H
2S - pass