[helene_t]

Free, on Feb 13 2006, 11:17 AM, said:

There was a question asked what you open with a 4252.  Well, in 1&2 seat you'll definetly open 1♦, but in 3rd seat you may open 1♠.  I know someone who even opened 1♠ on QJ98-Ax-AKQJxx-x, planning to rebid 3NT.  His partner supported ♠ however, so he just jumped to 6♠ which was doubled and just made. 

Playing Acol(12-14 1NT, that is 11-13 with this good shape) you must, if in the 1NT range, be prepared to rebid you 5-card since a rebid of 1NT shows a stronger hand. But with a 4-card spades it is not a problem since you can pass reponder's 1NT (6-9 or some such, depending on partnership agreements).

Playing SAYC(15-17 i.e. 14-16 1NT), you must be prepared to rebid a new suit if you open one-of-a-suit with a hand in the 1NT range, since you are too strong to pass responder's 1NT (6-10).

With a 4225 or 4252 and 11-13 HCPs, playing Acol you can open either 1NT or 1m. SAYC-players should open 1NT with 4252 and 15-16 HCPs since otherwise you don't have a good rebid over partner's 1NT response.

With 2425 or 2452 and 11-13 HCPs, Acol-players should open 1NT if the minor suit is not strong enough to rebid.

[000002]

Thanks i learn many from you.


does it differ in the auction as below:1♦-3♣ respond ?


regards

[helene_t]

You mean a jump shift of 3♣? This is strong in both Acol and SAYC. Some authors define a jump shift as a one-suited hand, others as either a one-suited hand or a hand with a 5-card in the bid suit and support for opener's suit. This is something to discuss with partner, it goes beyond the general approach.

As for jump overcalls: traditionally, those are intemediate (11-15 HCPs) in Acol and strong (17+) in Standard American, but in SAYC (as in other modern versions of S.A.) they are weak, and modern Acol players tend to play weak jump overcalls as well.

[whereagles]

pbleighton, on Feb 12 2006, 03:48 PM, said:

You are right, unplayable is the wrong word. It is a VERY strong word. To suggest that "there's a case for saying it's unplayable" is essentially saying that it is at best an inferior method, and at worst it is really, really terrible.

Yeah.. that definitely wasn't the idea. Thx.

[joshs]

As has been pointed out, the main differences between ACOL and SAYC are:
1. ACOL is 4 card majors, SAYC is 5
2. ACOL plays light 2/1 bids that do not promise a rebid. SAYC 2/1 bids supposidly promose a rebid, although many SAYC players do not know this
3. Part of the reason for ACOL's light 2/1 bids is:
a. ACOL is usually played with a weak NT, so many 9 or 10 counts need a convienyant way to invite game
b. ACOL often is played with light opening bids in the majors (with 5 card suits), so you need to be able to stop low after opening an 11 count when the 2/1 is made on 9 or 10
4. Practically all jumps in ACOL are Invitational (e.g. 1m-2N or 1M-3M) while in SAYC some are forcing (1m-2N). American bidding started with all jumps being forcing but has been migrating in the ACOL direction so most are INV these days.

Quite frankly, I am really not sure there is "1 system" known as ACOL, since ACOL players all do very different things. But they are all 4 card majors and very natural.

Josh

[joshs]

BTW, the one time I played ACOL in a real event, it was a very americanized version:

1. Weak NTs
2. 4 card majors but we usually opened a minor with 4-4 unless the major was much better
3. 2/1's promising a rebid
4. Bergen raises (I actually like these much better playing 4 card majors and a weak NT than playing 5 card majors)
5. Constructive single raises, which usually have only 3 card support
6. 1X-1N-2N was 17-18ish
7. A mini-multi 2D with Intermediate 2's
8. Non-forcing single raises in the minors, and criss-cross as the forcing raise

[EricK]

Here is something interesting (if slightly off-topic):

In traditional Acol a 2/1 showed about 8+ points. In traditional SA a 2/1 shows about 10/11+ points. In both cases the 2/1 bid shows enough strength to have a shot at 2NT should partner turn up with a minimum balanced hand (15 points in Acol, 12 in SA).

In more modern versions of Acol the 2/1 shows about 10+ points, whereas in more modern American systems the 2/1 shows 12/13+ points. i.e in both cases the 2/1 has become just strong enough to have a shot at 3NT should opener have a minimum balanced hand.

The ability for opener to simply rebid a forcing 2NT after a 2/1 and not have to jump to 3NT with a little extra is, IMO, the biggest reason for the shift in both cases.