[luke warm]

well hell... i bid 2S because that was his first suit... how would he bid if 6/4 or 5/4?

[Kalvan14]

Strange to have a perfect split between pass and 2NT. I'd prefer to play 2♥, given the very poor communications in this hand (and I'd be quite surpised if we have more than 21-22 HCP together)

[han]

luke warm, on Feb 6 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

well hell... i bid 2S because that was his first suit... how would he bid if 6/4 or 5/4?

With 5-4 in the majors he would pass or double most of the time, not 2H.

[Double !]

Pass
get out while you still have a good chance for a plus score.
partner is distributional (5-5+) and doesn't have a good enough hand to double and then bid or tolerate a penalty pass or a 3C bid.
yes, you have two very key cards, but there can be communication problems on the hand.
i believe that, when in doubt, play for the plus score
i know, wrong again

DHL

[jdeegan]

Pass. This is a misfit hand.

[FrancesHinden]

I'd also pass. If we miss game it's probably 4H, not 3NT.

[000002]

i agree that pass is better than 2nt when "xxx" are all small (<9)card, i would bid 2nt if ♣ is J9xx.

[awm]

Hannie, on Feb 6 2006, 07:44 PM, said:

luke warm, on Feb 6 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

well hell... i bid 2S because that was his first suit... how would he bid if 6/4 or 5/4?

With 5-4 in the majors he would pass or double most of the time, not 2H.

I suspect that you have very different views on double than I do.

Suppose opener's shape is 5-4-2-2 or 6-4-1-2 or 6-4-2-1. After 1♠-2♦-P-P, what is opener's expected call? On the first hand pass might be an option, but let's suppose opener has extras.

If you balance with double, what do you do when partner bids clubs? My partners always bid my short suit when I make an off-shape "takeout" double! On the first hand you are truly fixed. Even if you have 17 hcp, there's no reason 3NT should be at all playable (partner could have zero) and if you pass or correct you get to play a 7-card fit at the three level, which may well get doubled since the suit breaks will not be great. On the other two hands, you'll presumably pull to 3♠, but partner may well expect a better hand for this action, and even if not you'll be a level higher than you need to be.

Perhaps you expect that partner will bid 2♥ on three cards or 2♠ on two cards before trying a five-card club suit. Personally I don't think this is very standard.

Often it seems that a lot of people have an agreement of the form "pass a two level overcall asks partner to double; this double shows nothing in particular about opener's hand, it's just there for responder to convert; if responder can't convert he should just bid the lowest suit he can possibly tolerate because opener didn't promise any kind of fit for the unbids." My observation is that people who play this way end up in the wrong spot more often than the right one, but your results may vary. I suspect this is not standard though, and probably should also be disclosed to the opponents somehow.

[mike777]

I still argue p should double on almost any hand with only 10 cards in the majors and short D but I do see many disagree and are very worried about a club bid by partner. If you really only have 10-12 hcp where the heck are all the points on this hand .

[mikeh]

mike777, on Feb 5 2006, 03:24 PM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 5 2006, 02:02 PM, said:

Peter thinks that partner should have a strong hand for 2H, Mike thinks that partner should be 6-6 in the majors... I disagree with both. I wonder what you two recommend partner to do with

AJ10xx
AQxxx
xx
x

If double, what should partner do over 3C? Is partner not allowed to bid 3C with x xxx Kxxx Jxxxx over the double?

I think that partner has a fairly minimal hand with 5-5 in the majors. I don't think that we have many tricks in notrump, so I pass. 2NT would be my second choice.

If playing sound openings that is not an opening hand.
If playing lightish openings where are the hcp? I would reopen with x and see if LHO bids again or pass 2D. Good hand to discuss with your partnership. Do you play with a light opener you must reopen almost all hands with an x or just pass?

Your use of the adjective 'sound' is misplaced. Unless you believe that an approach espoused by (my guess) fewer than 1% of the duplicate bridge playing population represents a 'sound' form of bridge.

I strongly suspect that for the 99% of whom I form a tiny part, AJ10xxx AQxx xx x would be viewed as a 'clear' opening bid.

I am considered a conservative bidder amongst my peers, and yet I consider this hand a 'sound', 'full-value', 'comfortable', 'obvious' opening bid

As for the given problem, I pass the reopening bid with complete ease.

I would NOT expect a freak of 6-6 (altho he may have a weak 6-6).

He could have several hand types. He may have a hand that is unable to handle a 3♣ bid by me should he double. He may have a weak offensive hand unwilling to risk sitting for a penalty pass by me. What he will not have is a highly distributional powerhouse. I pass and hope to survive the trump lead by the defence (I expect to survive because of my two working Kings).

[han]

awm, on Feb 9 2006, 10:55 AM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 6 2006, 07:44 PM, said:

luke warm, on Feb 6 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

well hell... i bid 2S because that was his first suit... how would he bid if 6/4 or 5/4?

With 5-4 in the majors he would pass or double most of the time, not 2H.

I suspect that you have very different views on double than I do.

Suppose opener's shape is 5-4-2-2 or 6-4-1-2 or 6-4-2-1. After 1♠-2♦-P-P, what is opener's expected call? On the first hand pass might be an option, but let's suppose opener has extras.

If you balance with double, what do you do when partner bids clubs? My partners always bid my short suit when I make an off-shape "takeout" double! On the first hand you are truly fixed. Even if you have 17 hcp, there's no reason 3NT should be at all playable (partner could have zero) and if you pass or correct you get to play a 7-card fit at the three level, which may well get doubled since the suit breaks will not be great. On the other two hands, you'll presumably pull to 3♠, but partner may well expect a better hand for this action, and even if not you'll be a level higher than you need to be.

Perhaps you expect that partner will bid 2♥ on three cards or 2♠ on two cards before trying a five-card club suit. Personally I don't think this is very standard.

Often it seems that a lot of people have an agreement of the form "pass a two level overcall asks partner to double; this double shows nothing in particular about opener's hand, it's just there for responder to convert; if responder can't convert he should just bid the lowest suit he can possibly tolerate because opener didn't promise any kind of fit for the unbids." My observation is that people who play this way end up in the wrong spot more often than the right one, but your results may vary. I suspect this is not standard though, and probably should also be disclosed to the opponents somehow.

Your writing seems unrelated to what I wrote.

I certainly do not think that opener should double anytime he is short in diamonds and willing to defend (see my 5-5 example hand for instance).

I said that when opener is 5-4 then he will double most of the time. For me 5-4 does not mean 6-4, so mentioning 6-4-1-2 and 6-4-2-1 shapes are besides the point. I have made some bad reopening doubles in my life, but I never intended to play as you describe here. I am surprised that you interpret my comment this way.

[mikeh]

awm, on Feb 9 2006, 10:55 AM, said:

Perhaps you expect that partner will bid 2♥ on three cards or 2♠ on two cards before trying a five-card club suit. Personally I don't think this is very standard.

.

I certainly think, and have long thought, that it is 'standard' to bid 2♠ rather than 3♣ on modest hands with 2=5 in the blacks after the reopening double. I am surprised to hear otherwise, and would be interested in the thoughts of others.

If I am going to play a 5-2 fit, I'd rather it be at the 2-level in a major with the overcaller on lead than at the 3-level in a minor. Indeed, I will often be better in the 5-2 major than in 3♣ on a 5-3.

[Walddk]

Clear pass to me. Opener has a light, distributional (5+-5+) hand unsuitable for defence (no reopening double). Last chance to go plus.

If you play negative doubles, you simply must reopen with a double on something like

AJxxx
QJxx
x
Kxx

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

mikeh, on Feb 9 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

awm, on Feb 9 2006, 10:55 AM, said:

Perhaps you expect that partner will bid 2♥ on three cards or 2♠ on two cards before trying a five-card club suit. Personally I don't think this is very standard.

.

I certainly think, and have long thought, that it is 'standard' to bid 2♠ rather than 3♣ on modest hands with 2=5 in the blacks after the reopening double. I am surprised to hear otherwise, and would be interested in the thoughts of others.

If I am going to play a 5-2 fit, I'd rather it be at the 2-level in a major with the overcaller on lead than at the 3-level in a minor. Indeed, I will often be better in the 5-2 major than in 3♣ on a 5-3.

I agree with Mike (and I'm going to take this further) that after partner opens at the 1-level in the major then makes a re-opening double, and I have a weak hand,

- I will bid his major on a doubleton rather than a 5-card suit a level higher
- I will bid his major on a doubleton rather than a 4-card suit

It's true that with a 1345 I would bid clubs (well, lebensohl out to clubs) and I'll be in the wrong spot opposite a 5422. That's life.

[han]

Frances, how about 4 hearts and 2 spades? I think you don't bid 2S with that.. or do you?

[eddii]

i voted 2nt cause i thought i was bidding the unusual 2nt, but i like peter's 3nt explanation better.

[Free]

Pass was the winning action. Partner had a 5-5 with ♦ void. Where will you find enough tricks in NT? 2NT goes down, 3NT goes down even more.

[Winstonm]

I pass. Partner should have a weak 5/5 or 6/5 for this auction and we have no good fit or source of tricks.

When it is settled that playing negative doubles is more productive than penalty doubles, it then follows that you will not always be able to successfully penalize the opponents and your bidding should reflect this. I get preturbed at partners who think they can have it both ways and always expect a reopening double regardless of the hand - this is not consistent and is poor bridge IMO.

Negative doubles are designed to aid bidding, and thus bidding should be emphasized over penalty passes, meaning bidding 2N and 3N with suitable hands instead of making the penalty pass. When playing negative doubles, a penalty pass should be reserved for a hand that has the best chance for a plus score by allowing the opponents's to play the hand - and sometimes they won't get doubled.
That's the price you pay for adopting this device.

Winston

[000002]

i agree that pass is a litter better than 2nt,but i notice this is the case that the fouth opp is less than 3 points.so 3NT is a comfortable contract when we have 25 HCPs total,,even only 24PS total,especially opposite the another possibility that partner maybe have 4cards ♥&6cards ♠ with 16 hcps.

[Free]

I disagree that partner can have 6♠ and 4♥, he'd bid 2♠ with that imo, since we didn't Dbl...