[kenrexford]

2/1 GF. 1S-P-2C-P-2D-P-2S-P-2NT.

I have run into two main approaches in the past. Some treat 2NT as a pattern bid, treating cuebids as starting after the first pattern bid. Some treat 2NT as a "poor trumps" cuebid, showing less than KQxxx in trumps (not two of top three honors).

I recently ran into a third version, where 2NT is sort of a non-serious 2NT, allowing 3NT later to be natural and to play. 2NT, in this approach, "might" be based upon poor controls, or poor trumps. But, nothing more is really known.

Any thoughts on this topic. Personally, I think I prefer "poor trumps" to pattern bidding (having once been a pattern nutcase enthusiast, a canape player). I do not really get the "non-serious" 2NT approach.

[mike777]

kenrexford, on Jan 30 2006, 01:40 PM, said:

2/1 GF.  1S-P-2C-P-2D-P-2S-P-2NT.

I have run into two main approaches in the past.  Some treat 2NT as a pattern bid, treating cuebids as starting after the first pattern bid.  Some treat 2NT as a "poor trumps" cuebid, showing less than KQxxx in trumps (not two of top three honors).

I recently ran into a third version, where 2NT is sort of a non-serious 2NT, allowing 3NT later to be natural and to play.  2NT, in this approach, "might" be based upon poor controls, or poor trumps.  But, nothing more is really known.

Any thoughts on this topic.  Personally, I think I prefer "poor trumps" to pattern bidding (having once been a pattern nutcase enthusiast, a canape player).  I do not really get the "non-serious" 2NT approach.

I assume 2S is a very strong slam try in spades.
2nt for me would mean partner I got nuttin! Often 5=2=4=2 shape.
I suppose you could jump to 4S with nuttin but pard might have a lot of sometin!

[pclayton]

Clearly pattern. Any call in a 2/1 below 3 of our suit is pattern-based.

I've never heard of the 'poor-trumps' cuebid, and I'm not sure thats a playable treatment anyway.

[kenrexford]

The source for the "poor trumps" cuebid of 2NT in this auction is Belladonna-Petroncini.

The merits of that call I have tested out, and I see the value. It creates a situation where responder can now make Picture Jumps with less than two top trump honors if Opener bypasses 2NT (promising good trumps). It also ensures that Opener cuebids only witrh good trumps, thereby enabling more rapid sign-offs when trumps are poor, and less disclosure. Hence, for example, 1S-P-2C-P-2D-P-2S-P-2NT-P-4S may occur, with minimal information exchange, when the partnership is weak in spades.

I still do not understand the "non-serious" version. Even if no one uses this, can anyone explain the theory?

[han]

I play 2NT as patterning out, 3NT over 2NT would suggest playing there.

I would not assume that 1S-2C-2D-2S shows strong slam interest (nor does it deny it).

[luis]

5422 to me.
One of the rare sequences where 2/1 lets you describe your exact shape we should embrace the oportunity and do it :-)
3c or 3h would be a fragment bid showing 5431, 3s showing 64 shape and 3d with 5-5.



Luis

[mikeh]

For me, 2N is just a neutral waiting bid, usually 5=2=4=2 with ♥ stopper(s) but it might be 5=3=4=1. I certainly do not read any big message into 2♠: give partner Kx Jxx Qxx AKJxx and what is he bidding over 2♦? Once I bid 2N, he has an easy 3N.

I do not like the idea of 2N as any kind of cue bid.... I do not cue bid until we have trump agreement, and 2♠ did not set trump.

[mike777]

mikeh, on Jan 30 2006, 05:07 PM, said:

For me, 2N is just a neutral waiting bid, usually 5=2=4=2 with ♥ stopper(s) but it might be 5=3=4=1. I certainly do not read any big message into 2♠: give partner Kx Jxx Qxx AKJxx and what is he bidding over 2♦? Once I bid 2N, he has an easy 3N.

I do not like the idea of 2N as any kind of cue bid.... I do not cue bid until we have trump agreement, and 2♠ did not set trump.

I would rebid 3clubs or 2H.
Partner could have bid 2D on this and maybe worse.
AQJxx..xx...Axxx..xx or
AJxxx..Qx..KJxx..xx

2S for me is a very strong slam try. Assuming lightish openings then:
Axx=Axx=Ax=Axxxx as a common minimum.
Partner opening on:
KQxxx..xx...KQxx..xx
and 4 spades can go down.

[han]

mikeh, on Jan 30 2006, 05:07 PM, said:

For me, 2N is just a neutral waiting bid, usually 5=2=4=2 with ♥ stopper(s) but it might be 5=3=4=1. I certainly do not read any big message into 2♠: give partner Kx Jxx Qxx AKJxx and what is he bidding over 2♦? Once I bid 2N, he has an easy 3N.

I do not like the idea of 2N as any kind of cue bid.... I do not cue bid until we have trump agreement, and 2♠ did not set trump.

I will start a new thread, to figure out if people play that 1S-2C-2D-2S shows 3 spades when playing 2/1 GF.

I don't think that many people play that it shows a 16-count as Mike does, so I will not include that in the poll.

[kenrexford]

I would add that fewer people now-a-days are requiring real diamonds in this auction either. Meaning, 1S-P-2C-P-2D-P-2S is an auction where the only known facts are that a spade fit exists and that game will be reached, with the limitations that Responder probably does not have five hearts and Opener probably does not have four hearts.

I could imagine this auction with 5323 opposite 3523, easily.

However, I could not imagine any auction where Responder has two spades.

[joshs]

kenrexford, on Jan 30 2006, 01:40 PM, said:

2/1 GF. 1S-P-2C-P-2D-P-2S-P-2NT.

I have run into two main approaches in the past. Some treat 2NT as a pattern bid, treating cuebids as starting after the first pattern bid. Some treat 2NT as a "poor trumps" cuebid, showing less than KQxxx in trumps (not two of top three honors).

I recently ran into a third version, where 2NT is sort of a non-serious 2NT, allowing 3NT later to be natural and to play. 2NT, in this approach, "might" be based upon poor controls, or poor trumps. But, nothing more is really known.

Any thoughts on this topic. Personally, I think I prefer "poor trumps" to pattern bidding (having once been a pattern nutcase enthusiast, a canape player). I do not really get the "non-serious" 2NT approach.

In standard 2/1 this auction (2/1 GF. 1S-P-2C-P-2D-P-2S-P-2NT),
2N is natural showing either:
a. 5242 OR
b. 5341 (With this shape you can also bid 3H. The decision depends on your possible desire to play 3N from your side, and your desire to slow down the auction)

I personally think it should also show some values in the 4'th suit.

2N tends to slow down the auction and hint that its more important where partner's concnetration of values are than where partner's controls are. If opener just wanted partner to cue bid he can re-raise to 3S instead of bidding 2N.

Note: Even if your partnership plays serious or non-serious 3N, this convention should be off if either player has ever bid NT previously.

Also Note: Just because you bid 2N doesn't mean you should pass 3N. A hand like:
AKxxx Ax xxxx Qx should bid 2N but pull 3N to 4S. This sequence should show some short suit values but a hand unsuitable for 3N.

Josh

[mikeh]

Hannie, on Jan 30 2006, 05:21 PM, said:

I don't think that many people play that it shows a 16-count as Mike does, so I will not include that in the poll.

Which Mike??

I sure don't play 2N as extra values: I might have them, but I don't promise or suggest them.

[Kalvan14]

After 1♠-2♣-2♦-2♠, opener should pattern his hand:

• 2NT: 5-4-2-2 or 5-3-4-1 (can have extras - promises a heart stopper)
  
• 3C: Hx (or xxx) without heart stopper
  
• 3D: 5 diamonds
  
• 3H: 5-3-4-1, shows extras
  
• 3S: slam try
  
• 3NT: minimum 5-3-4-1, good heart holding (proposes to play)
  
• 4C: 5-1-4-3 (Hxx in clubs, minimum)
  
• 4D: extras, 5-5 in S/D, singleton club
  
• 4H: extras, 5-5 S/D, singleton heart
  
• 4S: minimum hand, concentration in S/D (if there is a singleton, it is in clubs)

Note: with Hxx in clubs and non-minimum hand, opener raises clubs at 2nd round; with 4 cards in clubs and minimum hand, 3♦/♥ show a shortness.