[Flame]

Scoring: MP

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Bidding
1♥ (D) RD (1♠)
p (P) 2♣ (P)
2♦ (2♠) p (p)
D

Played this hand yesterday and need help with most of the bids.
I opened 1H, LHO doubled and now to the first question what should partner bid, we play 1nt-2d as transfers so we dont have natural 1nt.
what is best , 1S, 1nt, P, redouble ?
Partner choosed redouble, RHO bid 1S, Whats my bid now ? I passed , i only bid when im shapy and weak. next hand pass,and now whats partner's bid ? can she doubled with these spades ? she bid 2C, my rho pass, and what should i bid ? can i or this is forcing ? i think its forcing and i bid 2D, my LHO bid 2S, now what ? should partner double now ? she passed and it waspassed to me, am i still in a forcing situation ? I wasnt sure, and anyway thought we have 21-22+ hcp and no fit the opponents were weak and decided to double (wouldnt do it at imp). the score for -1 was ok but I dont feel we knew what we are doing. So if you can give your opinion for the bids but also explain the forcing principle what ends it, and how do we show extra, how do we differnce between 13 hcp and 10 hcp with responder's hand.

[inquiry]

I will edit your post so the opening bid is 1♥ not 1♠.

I don't lke your methods. I prefer 1NT to be natural, and redouble be the transfer, a method MishovnBg forced on me against my objections, but I now like a lot. See how it would work on this hand? You give up on the redouble then double them when they bid, but those are rare beasties anyway, and all too often they can escape anyway. So my auction would have been 1H-DBL-!NT, passing.

Now for your auction, your partner having shown an unlimited hand with the double should limit it immediately by bidding 1NT after 1♥-(DBL)-RDBL-(1♠-Pass-(pass)-1NT.... Now your side has told your story.

Ben

[FrancesHinden]

There's little point having a discussion about what methods are best; as you clearly know from your post the important thing is to understand the methods you are playing.

As always, these things are a matter of agreement. However, the agreements I play, which I believe are fairly standard, are:

i) Redouble sets up a forcing pass below two of opener's suit, not above it. So on your auction responder could not pass out 1S, but opener could pass out 2S. If, for example, East pre-empts on the first round to 2S over the redouble (above 2H), pass is not forcing.

ii) After a redouble, if opener bids immediately that shows a weak distributional hand (exactly as you say). The rarely found jump by opener in front of the redoubler shows a weak very distributional hand. In general good hands pass first.

iii) A new suit bid by the redoubler is forcing for a round. NT bids and raises of opener's suit(s) are not forcing. So yes, I would say responder's 2C is forcing for a round and you can't pass it. All the subsequent auction is in the context of having started with a redouble: so, for example, on a decent 10-count responder can bid just 1NT as the minimum for a redouble is a good 9. (You could argue that 2NT should be forcing; certainly it's not going to be passed very often.)

iv) A non-standard agreement that I find useful is to play opener's 1NT as conventional. For example, 1H x xx P 1NT. There's little need for this to be natural as you would usually pass. Two potential meanings are 1. a sub-minimum opening with a 4-card side suit, bidding showing a 5-5 and 2. a sub-minimum opening with a weak side suit higher than opener's suit.

[Kalvan14]

IMHO, redouble is a bit stretched with N hand: the strength is almost-but-not-quite there, and effectively N can double just clubs (doubling 2♠ with 4 baby spades is not much appetizing).
I'd not double, and would not bid 1NT: I'd bid 1♠, 1-round forcing.
W is likely to have 4 spades, but it is not written in blood. And maybe you find oppos napping and you steer them out of their best fit. The suit is too weak? apparently not so, if you're willing to double a 2♠ contract.

Note: I'm not sure in your method you can bid 1♠ with a natural meaning. If it is not possible, then I pass: there will be time to come back into the bid, and i would not expect it to come back at 4♠ level

[easy]

I prefer not to stretch with my xx's thus i would not make that call. Question
What would 1nt (relay to clubs) followed by 2h mean. My pard and i play that shows a 2 card raise with about 6-9 pts. ( we took that from "cappelletti raises over a major doubled")

I dont care for 1s very much because my pards have a tendency to raise me with 3 cards and i would hate to be playing a 4-3 fit with bad spades and a probable 4-2 break.

yes 2 clubs is forcing pards hand is unlimited.

is pass of 2s a forcing pass... No. pard indicates a minimum xx with clubs.

[Kalvan14]

it is a good practice to raise pard's 1♠ with 3 trumps. Maybe the tactical situation here is such as not to recommend the usual approach.


If you can play the transfer to ♣, and then show minimum fit in hearts with the right point range, it is fine with me.

[joshs]

Well you have the methods for this hand. This is a classic x-fer to 2 clubs and then bid 2H hand. That typically shows about 7-9 with 5 clubs and 2 hearts. A perfect description of you hand.

After the light xx, you are pretty much stuck over 2S, since you are in a forcing auction (My vote is 2N if I miscounted my points the first time and xxed). Its normal to be in a force through 2N when you have announced values to be able to play 2N or higher.

[FrancesHinden]

Redouble is normally played as a good 9+ (though I agree on this particular hand I would also rather transfer to clubs and bid 2H). That doesn't seem to be forcing to 2NT to me.

[cherdano]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 24 2006, 08:23 PM, said:

Redouble is normally played as a good 9+ (though I agree on this particular hand I would also rather transfer to clubs and bid 2H). That doesn't seem to be forcing to 2NT to me.

That surprises me a little. I would have thought it's more like 11+, or very good 10+.

[Kalvan14]

cherdano, on Jan 24 2006, 02:57 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Jan 24 2006, 08:23 PM, said:

Redouble is normally played as a good 9+ (though I agree on this particular hand I would also rather transfer to clubs and bid 2H).  That doesn't seem to be forcing to 2NT to me.

That surprises me a little. I would have thought it's more like 11+, or very good 10+.

I'd say that a good 9+ or a good 10+ is not really significant (I play 10+ without qualifications, so I'm straight down the middle). The important things are the shape, the fit with opener (or lack thereof) and the partnership agreements (XX is forcing up to?)

[Chamaco]

cherdano, on Jan 24 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Jan 24 2006, 08:23 PM, said:

Redouble is normally played as a good 9+ (though I agree on this particular hand I would also rather transfer to clubs and bid 2H).  That doesn't seem to be forcing to 2NT to me.

That surprises me a little. I would have thought it's more like 11+, or very good 10+.

Hehe, I use XX as about 10+

I guess it boils down to how light opener can be, because the XX sets a FP and often is followed by penalty doubles.

I suppose that light opener style requires a good 11 for a redouble, whereas normal openers would require a good 9 or 10+, and quite solid openers might allow XX with somewhat less values.

[Kalvan14]

There must be a level after which the partnership is no more committed to a FP.

Suppose the auction is 1x - (X) - XX - (3♠) - P - (P): are we in a forcing pass situation?

You can have 2♠ instead of 3♠ if you prefer (and this might be quite a common auction): FP or not?

[Gerben42]

I would transfer to ♣, I don't have enough to XX. Not with four small ♠ anyway.