[inquiry]

Michaels cue bid is very popular. But I was wondering how people play their michaels, if vulnerabilty makes a difference assume none vulnerable. I was also wondering how frequently people play top michaels (showing just the higher suit, and either of the other two), and how many beginners/intermediates still play this cue-bid as strong takeout.

[Free]

I play michaels, but 1H-2H is 5+S and 4+ either minor (we don't need 5-5). We bid according to LTC, so no HCP involved and it depends on vulnerability...

[Codo]

Maybe I missed something, but I play Michaels (and Un2NT etc) always as weak or very strong, never with an opening hand.
So no vote from me.

Kidn Regards

Roland

[inquiry]

Quote

Maybe I missed something, but I play Michaels (and Un2NT etc) always as weak or very strong, never with an opening hand.
So no vote from me.

Kidn Regards

Roland

vote it other, as i did. you are thinking along the lines i wanted to stimulate, this is in the beginner/intermediate discussion area and the poll is meant to stimulate discussion.

[Felix]

Here in Italy a pretty popular treatment is Ghestem, where 2S would be H+C and 3C would be H+D

I find it works well, but not everybody does....if you wanna have a laugh check http://www.blakjak.d...uk/brx_brn0.htm

Felix

[luis]

Yeah, a poll with about a zillion options and I had to vote "other" so it be...
First of all I prefer Ghestem, knowing which two suits pd held is a very important advantage for advancer to decide the proper denomination and level to play specially when everybody is bidding.
But for beginners and ints I must reckon that Ghestem accidents are more likely than Michaels accidents playing with an expert pd I played 3c on a 3-0 fit some weeks ago "oh dear..." was the comment we had a slam in spades of course but the play was interesting since I had never played a 3-0 fit before.
When playing michaels I play the overcall to be either weakish or strong, that's why I voted "other".

Luis

[paulg]

Luis' comments about Ghestem accidents is very valid - bids that don't come up very often are difficult for us all and more so for beginners/intermediates who have so many other things to consider.

Unlike Free I insist on my B/Is being 5-5 for Michaels and UNT - playing 4-3 fits at a high level is something for the advanced players, who similarly leave the 3-0 fits to the world class

regards

paul

[hrothgar]

Playing the overcall structure that I prefer, a cue bid is defined as a weak, pure takeout.
The 2H cuebid would show either 4441 or 5440 spade with short Hearts.

[inquiry]

Quote

Playing the overcall structure that I prefer, a cue bid is defined as a weak, pure takeout.
The 2H cuebid would show either 4441 or 5440 spade with short Hearts.

Wouldn't that be a 1NT overcall in overcall structure?

[hrothgar]

Ben is correct. Playing "The Overcall Structure" 1NT is used as takeout.
Potentially, I should have said playing the structure of overcalls that I prefer.

short summary

Double = Power double showing either

(a) A balnced hand with 16+ HCP
( A strong takeout double
© A strong sinlge suited hand

1 Major = 4+ Cards, could be balanced
1N = Lindqvist (4 cards in an unbid major and 5+ cards in an unbid minor)

Cue Bid = Weak takeout
Jump Shift = Roman (5+ cards in the bid suit, 5+ cards in the next higher suit)
Double Jump = Weak Jump Shift

[sallyally]

My regular partner and I play always 5/5 for:

Unusual Notrump - 2 lowest unbid

Michaels - 2 highest unbid

Ghestem - Highest and lowest unbid

We have been told by more expert players to use these bids either as strong or weak

With intermediate hands bid 1 suit at a time

[hallway]

My Notes say - Use with discretion ! give preference to a simple overcall or X (change suit with 16+)

We use it with a strong hand - always constructive - 8+ if P can bid a suit at the 2 level OR 10+ if P 'will' have to bid at the 3 level

in the above example my 2H bid would be telling P that I had 5 Spades and 5 in one of the minors.

Which calls to mind one of 'those' bridge moments :

The first time I made such a bid my Partner positively jumped in her seat and her loudly exclaimed WHAT!! caused heads to turn :-[ when my LHO had recovered sufficiently to pass my Partner went into one of her ceiling gazing trances (very hard on my nerves these I have a tendancy towards hysteria !) and upon her return she smilingly bid 4S ;D

"Use with discretion" seems to me to be remarkably good advice.

[pbleighton]

Spades and a minor, either very strong or weak, always 5+ in both suits.

I'm not confident enough in my declaring ability to want to play 4-3 fits at the 3 level.

Peter

P.S. Last week at my club a pair playing against us gave us a top by using michaels with 13 points, then stopping in part score when they had a game.

[ReginaldF]

The reference to Losing Trick Count, surely it is not effective until you establish a fit?

And judging by the result agree the meaning of Michaels prior to playing! :'(

[inquiry]

Learning Point...

I think the replies here show what I intended when I asked this question. Out of 17 votes (so far) no one played it as strong forcing (alhough one reply mentioned playing it this way).

Second, among the michaels cue-bid responders, there was a mixture between people who played it as Spades and diamonds, or spades and either minor. This is an important issue, and if you play michaels over a major, it is very important to know if you play it shows specifically the two highest suits or the highest and another.

Finally, as you see, a lot of the "other" posters complained about the point count ranges I offered. The standard is to play it either weak or strong, but never intermediate (as easier to separte these upon rebids). The range of your michaels should also be discussed. Don't just say "michaels" with a partner and assume you play it the same way.

Ben

[Cave_Draco]

Michaels is fine over an inconvenient minor.

What is the difference between a strong & weak T-O?

P sat with KQJT9 can pass a weak T-O?

You are sat on 23hcp & opp opens 1H... :-D.

[Free]

Quote

The reference to Losing Trick Count, surely it is not effective until you establish a fit?

Michael's cuebid is based on the "assumed fit" principle ;D So it's quite effective here ;D

[bearmum]

Quote

Michaels cue bid is very popular. But I was wondering how people play their michaels, if vulnerabilty makes a difference assume none vulnerable. I was also wondering how frequently people play top michaels (showing just the higher suit, and either of the other two), and how many beginners/intermediates still play this cue-bid as strong takeout.

AS my P and I play Precisiom Michaels Q bids ALWAYS less than 16 (or we X ) and points really depend on 1 VUL 2 what system opps play

[Gerben47]

For Beginners / Intermediates I would not recommend Ghestem, as it can only be played if both players have a very good memory for it. You won't be the first to go
(1S) 3C with long clubs, partner alerts 5-5 in red suits, uh oh... And unfortunately, not the last either.

So let's stick to the most common agreement: Michael's Cuebid and Unusual 2NT.
A cuebid of a major shows the other major and a minor, and 2NT as the two minors.

The cuebid of a minor shows both majors, and 2NT shows hearts and the other minor. Spades and the other minor can not be shown, this hand is bid naturally, starting with 1S.

Also, I play this (or Ghestem) as either weak or strong, so not with inbetween hands. This is because these are the hands where you don't know what to do after

(1H) 2H (p) 2S (p)
or
(1H) 2NT (p) 3C (p)

Partner has shown preference and now you have a hand that is not weak (which would pass), and not strong (would bid again). You would have to guess. Not so good.

So for example, your (1H) 2H bid is either something like

KJTxx
x
KQTxx
xx
(good intermediates like the T in both suits is a plus)

or at least:

AKQxx
x
KQJTx
xx

(A hand that can almost bid game by itself)

but not something like:

KQTxx
x
AQJxx
xx

since now we have to guess after partner's preference.

Gerben

[bearmum]

OK I play 1H/2H showing 5S and at least 4 of minor ( 5/5 if VUL v non v) AND less than 16 points with 16 or more points DOUBLE and show your distribution next time round :

Quote

Michaels cue bid is very popular. But I was wondering how people play their michaels, if vulnerabilty makes a difference assume none vulnerable. I was also wondering how frequently people play top michaels (showing just the higher suit, and either of the other two), and how many beginners/intermediates still play this cue-bid as strong takeout.